Been noticing something With defence oic

[Ookamiwulf Lemton]

Not say that it something bad but, People need to start listen to the Oic,

Been noticing a lot lately that people will just bolt to certain area if someone have capture point there like.

Not saying it bad, but order are order :/

recently a lone wolfer outsmarted us and captured 2 points if I'm not mistaken and as soon as that attacker captured one point, everyone scatter and bolted towards that area.

No offence to anyone just something to discuss about.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Ookamiwulf Lemton

[Ron Bleac]

I was participating personally for the first part of Dragnar's attack, only the central point was momentarily lost.

There is no issue. It's not about listening to orders, it's about people dying in combat and having to run back from their homepoints. The second time, Dragnar made it to the Southwest point because it was lightly defended. Shortly after, he was boxed into the tunnel system and destroyed.

I don't personally see what people are making such a big fuss about. A lot of people also expressed their frustration about the situation on Ventrilo.

My question to those people is: Why weren't you around to do anything about it? Instead of making running commentary, why weren't you plugging those gaps in the defense line that were forming due to the intense maneuvering?

[Ookamiwulf Lemton]

I was doing homework, I could of helped if it was a very dire but, first life comes first before second life, I was listening to ventrillo at the time, note to self If he does come and attack here again I'd be ready. Plus I know dragnar he an old friend of mine which is forgiven for what he said to me early but that another story. Also Used to do combat with him, fairly good in combat which I am eager to fight him.

Also Was afk during half of it.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Ookamiwulf Lemton

[Ookamiwulf Lemton]

Also Not specifically talking about this defensive operation there were numerous times where people would focus on a certain point while leaving another point strongly unguarded. I seen it a lot during defensive operation where people immediately just bolt towards another point while the Oic says to stand by on this point.

I'm just saying.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Ookamiwulf Lemton

[Rei Kuhr]

I'll just leave this here:

IV-413: The standing NC/OIC assumes command during defensive postures, regardless of branch of affiliation. All authority should be derived directly through the NC/OIC—dissenting commands, suggestions, or impeding of the NC/OIC is classified as insubordination unless from a superior member of officer status.

[Wolf Shaman]

An Observation is an Observation.

If Ookami felt the need to post it here, as is his right as a member of Ordo, then I'm sure Ookami felt a need to have his concerns voiced publicly for the rest of Ordo to see.

Take heed and Respect his words. Do not challenge them.

[Tsukiyomi Yuhara]

Numerous times has a single attacker (or a small group) have walked up to the line and gotten past it while the oic/defense was about doing their own thing. While I agree with you Ookami, honestly what happens is as people tend to rank up more, or even just spend time around titan. The mentality of "I've got it" takes precedent, and people start to ignore the OIC, or just essentially John Wayne the defense a bit.

I'll openly admit I have neglected an order based on previous orders. (I get my location reassigned a lot during big raids >:[). Use better judgement guys. As to what Ron said, that is correct, if Center is being taken, NE is already lost, and SW is untouched. The natural response is take NE back correct? Thats wrong in most cases. Remove threat, Secure locations, Reinforce locations. Basically it should be second nature to all of use to Remove targets first. a single live enemy can let loose a flood of hostiles, remember that.

I would suggest that during defenses, find a place you enjoy defending from most for each point. Doing so allows you to join a fight at any time and say "I can cover where ever needed." That is more important than being the best shot, or never dieing. Find your spots, know how you will get there each time, and most importantly, know you may not leave that spot. Trust in your brothers and sisters in arms to do the same job you do. When the OIC says "Someone take Center." DECLARE that you are going to do it. That is important, arguably more important than actually taking the point. Let everyone know NOT to swarm, if a situation is handled, say so. If you die completing a task, say so. Lastly, the MOST IMPORTANT PART. Stop dropping your post at the slightest sign of trouble. Wait for OIC orders, or think the situation through, will you leaving your point to assist another be more beneficial? Is it necessary? is it what you should do? Think your actions through, sometimes as much as running to another point can break a defense.

[Hunter Abrams]

Ill just say this...

I have been NC/OIC and quite a few times and most of the time a person just logs in or is a higher rank and just starts messing with my defense line and or starts telling me what to do and how to do it thus confusing the line by countering my orders. Or people ignore orders all together. It happens often enough to matter.

[Rei Kuhr]

The important thing to keep in mind is what Hunter said. Anyone who starts barking commands who isn't the OIC may mean well, but they're only going to cause confusion. It doesn't matter if you think you can do a better job, if you're not OIC, do not under any circumstances give any order during defense. If you have a problem with the way the sim is being defended, privately IM the OIC with your suggestions. If he chooses to disregard them and do his own thing, well that's his prerogative. If you think an OIC is neglecting his duty, then by all means submit a CIR about it.

If you openly go against the OIC, the only thing that will happen is you will land yourself in hot water.

I'm leaving that statement by itself, because I want everyone to read it. Never EVER go against the person in charge. There are protocols in place to deal with this situation properly.

It's not all dark skies and booming clouds though. Use your judgement and what leeway you have. If the OIC tells you to go to SW and you want to defend center, put yourself in a position where you can cover SW and help center. I found that if you go slightly north of the SW tower, you can put yourself in a position to easily cover SW while leaving some room to help Center if needed. The same goes with NE. The alleyway beside the power station allows you to help center while keeping the NE road covered. Use your heads.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Trinity Heckroth
I felt I should highlight a key point.

[Altus Nirvana]

I could imagine at some points when its a full on raid the OIC cant pay attention to every single thing happening (lack of folk on Vent, plus folk on Vent getting excited)...What ive usually done is taken the OIC's order as a main objective, and if any detail escapes him or changes (Like SW or NE starts getting neglected, someone makes it past defenses, etc) ill usually go on a mop up coming back from spawn or mention it to those who are running back already.

...for one guy though... it shouldnt get people tempered enough to flood coms and cause discord, let the objective go if its just a lonewolfer, and get it back when the opportunity arises. Thought that was the general thought process regarding that situation anyway :confused:

[Ookamiwulf Lemton]

I could imagine at some points when its a full on raid the OIC cant pay attention to every single thing happening (lack of folk on Vent, plus folk on Vent getting excited)...What ive usually done is taken the OIC's order as a main objective, and if any detail escapes him or changes (Like SW or NE starts getting neglected, someone makes it past defenses, etc) ill usually go on a mop up coming back from spawn or mention it to those who are running back already.

...for one guy though... it shouldnt get people tempered enough to flood coms and cause discord, let the objective go if its just a lonewolfer, and get it back when the opportunity arises. Thought that was the general thought process regarding that situation anyway :confused:

I can understand that , but When an oic order somthing, you don't disobey their order, you follow it. :/

[Altus Nirvana]

Well, besides people looking like they think theres some kind of scoreboard, breaking it down a bit it feels like a stress on communications. I dont think anyone is purposely disobeying OIC, they just dont notice it when he or she issues commands. OIC has to command on two channels...Most dont seem to have Ventrillo, and COMS typically gets flooded by other local messages.

Personally I think Ventrillo should be a mandatory program to have rather than voluntary. Like it was said when it was offered, you dont have to talk, but just atleast listen. It would surely increase cohesion and make OIC's life easier.

[Xiolin Furlough]

Well, besides people looking like they think theres some kind of scoreboard, breaking it down a bit it feels like a stress on communications. I dont think anyone is purposely disobeying OIC, they just dont notice it when he or she issues commands. OIC has to command on two channels...Most dont seem to have Ventrillo, and COMS typically gets flooded by other local messages.

Personally I think Ventrillo should be a mandatory program to have rather than voluntary. Like it was said when it was offered, you dont have to talk, but just atleast listen. It would surely increase cohesion and make OIC's life easier.

Agreed. It makes it a lot easier to use Ventrilo to give out orders than it is to stop your fire to issue an order on COMS.

COMS is very nice to have so everyone is in touch, but when it comes to defense, or even offense for the matter, it is hard to pay attention to COMS when you have your sights down your barrel, essentially, and firing at the enemy. Ventrilo, however, is using the listening, which at the time shouldn't be impaired by much of anything else. It is a whole lot easier to listen in on Ventrilo and focus on the enemy with sight, than to have your sight trying to multi task when it comes to shooting the enemy, and giving/receiving orders via COMS.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Xiolin Furlough

[Hunter Abrams]

I will stress this... LOG INTO VENT as the OIC generaly uses this to communicate as its faster than typing. You don't even have to speak just listen. "I dont have a mic" is not a reason its an excuse. But it is your choice weather you log into vent or not. Its just faster and its clear who gives orders rather than coms. wich is slow.

[Sebris Montpark]

I will stress this... LOG INTO VENT as the OIC generaly uses this to communicate as its faster than typing. You don't even have to speak just listen. "I dont have a mic" is not a reason its an excuse. But it is your choice weather you log into vent or not. Its just faster and its clear who gives orders rather than coms. wich is slow.

Indeed. I've seen many others stay in vent despite lacking a mic. If they had something to say, they would say it in comms but they would stay in vent to hear the express commands when they are given and quick enough to maintain the upper side against the enemy

[Aryte]

Ventrilo is mandatory for the NC/OIC.

[Aryte]

http://forums.ordoimperialis.com/index.php?/topic/3556-ordo-standing-orders-updated-04jan10/

[Ookamiwulf Lemton]

Just put this out as well, Communication is the key to winning, defending, tactical strategies and attacking. I will agree both hunter and the Imperator on this one. Also, Coms are very useul cause you know, who knows if ventrillo might act on us on a raid or a defensive operation. Where it will just crash. Coms are still useful for these day and I think people who don't have a mic can use them. :/ just another thing to say.

[Striker Dryke]

Indeed. I've seen many others stay in vent despite lacking a mic. If they had something to say, they would say it in comms but they would stay in vent to hear the express commands when they are given and quick enough to maintain the upper side against the enemy

Totally agree with this, I do it all the time. I have a mic but it's extremely difficult to get the distance from it right and get comfortable for combat, so

I usually just listen over vent and respond in comms, or in local chat, and use

my mic only when necessary. No mic, not an excuse in my book.

[Deadmon]

While I dont dispute that you should follow NC/OIC orders, because frankly you should always follow orders, I have observed lately the lack of attention being paid to the NC/OIC's orders, and I think alot of it has come down to a mindset amongst several members that they shouldnt listen, because the orders are out of date for battle situation or conflict with SoP, or various other orders given that cause the desire to not listen to orders.

That being said, visible issues with NC/OIC have been this:

• 
  
• NC/OIC's being AFK without SoG.
  -Just dont do it, be attentive or appoint some eyes to watch while you are unable.
  
  
• NC/OIC issuing orders that directly conflict with Ordo protocol.
  -I dont know if its fear of losing or just over zealousness, but lately NC/OIC are quick to hit the "oh shit" button so to speak, and make calls that they shouldnt be making. Setting up constantly repaired minigun turret directly facing red zone HUB, calling in Astra to bomb the red zone, approving heavy weapons with no requirement for such in general. This shows poor discipline and leadership qualities and needs to stop. Our current build is already heavily sided for us, and proper fire teams and cross fire sections can easily defend us. If hostiles are sitting in the hub sending artillery, IM them to stop and move out of hub if they are going to fire artillery, and see if an EM is available to deal with the situation. Dont immediately start constantly shelling the hub back if you dont have to. Especially if its one person misbehaving in an entire attacking raid.
  
  
• NC/OIC not paying attention to battlefield conditions.
  -I often see NC/OIC not aware of new armored additions to combat on either our side or attackers. In which case without the attention of the OIC armaments continue to raise, with people equipping heavy weapons al. Or evor mobile armor without approven the enemy shows up with new mechs or air and OIC doesnt respond accordingly till our line has already been broken by it. This cant happen, NC/OIC needs to be aware of changing battle conditions.
  
  
• Not properly distributing orders in general
  -While Ventrillo is mandatory for NC/OIC not all defense is on it, if you are trying to direct someone and ventrilo isnt an option, type it out. Despite what people say about not being able to pay attention to coms and combat and vent at the same time, Its fairly easy to do so as long as coms arent cluttered with non combat related spam, especially in laggy battles. OIC needs to issue orders on a timely basis for changing conditions. If you are NC/OIC and you are more focused on being at the front of the line and trying to knife everyone that comes around the corner you have your priorities wrong. OIC/NCOIC should be more concerned with maintaining order and dominance on the battle field. While I dont necessarily expect the NC/OIC to be sitting in the radar room micro managing everybody, I think alot of OICs arent looking at the big picture of the battlefield, and are instead looking solely down their sights.
  

Those are just lists of things you should take in mind when holding NC/OIC position. Its easier to get people to follow orders they know are good orders, and know are coming from somebody who is aware of the battlefield. If any of those needs arent met, like not making proper changes for new armor ect it causes people to act on their own.

REGARDLESS, to not cause any mixed signals....

UNLESS THE OIC IS ORDERING YOU TO DO SOMETHING AGAINST ORDO REGULATIONS, FOLLOW ORDERS. <<<<<

Edited February 25, 2011 by Disembodied Hand