Curious Times

[Aryte]

Apparently Johann is still on an epic crusade to prove to the world I'm the devil, and betrayed him. I'm sorry to those of you who may be his friend, but this is getting ridiculous. Bedauerter is an AM officer whom decided to come to Titan to start shit. The following ensued:

[10:28] Bedauerter Neuman: I laugh at the fact you lie to everyone and think it's ok.

[10:29] Ruin Nefarious: So what have I lied about?

[10:29] Bedauerter Neuman: Hmmmmmmm where to begin haha.

[10:29] Ruin Nefarious: Go on.

[10:29] Bedauerter Neuman: Youve shown first off youre the least trustworthy person.

[10:30] Ruin Nefarious: Based upon? Come on. What did I lie about?

[10:30] Bedauerter Neuman: Pardon me, I am a bit too busy to talk. Im staring at a wall and getting people to do things for me.

[10:30] Ruin Nefarious: As in, you've got nothing.

[10:31] Bedauerter Neuman: Oh Ive plenty.

[10:31] Ruin Nefarious: Then start talking.

[10:31] Bedauerter Neuman: Ill get the stuff from Johann later when hes done in the shower.

[10:31] Ruin Nefarious: Ha ha ha ha ha. As in you've got nothing. You're buying what he says, because he's burned on account of having been ejected.

[10:31] Bedauerter Neuman: But actually, I am busy returning random EAF items.

[10:31] Ruin Nefarious: You claim me a liar without proof, taking face value. You've got nothing.

[10:31] Bedauerter Neuman: Umm.

[10:31] Bedauerter Neuman: I have it all.

[10:32] Ruin Nefarious: Then start talking?

[10:32] Bedauerter Neuman: Just it would be easier to hand you everything in a notecard, no?

[10:32] Ruin Nefarious: I thought you just said you have to wait for Johann to tell you?

[10:32] Bedauerter Neuman: No. I have to wait for him to give me the notecard.

[10:32] Bedauerter Neuman: And hes not burned on getting ejected.

[10:32] Bedauerter Neuman: He said things have been better without having to try to get you to like him. :/

[10:33] Ruin Nefarious: So let me get this straight. You call me a liar, and insist you know so much about why I am a liar . . but you need Johann to tell you first.

[10:33] Ruin Nefarious: I would say that's kind of jumping to conclusions.

[10:33] Bedauerter Neuman: Wtf is wrong with you?

[10:33] Bedauerter Neuman: When did I say I need him to tell me anything.

[10:33] Ruin Nefarious: [10:31] Bedauerter Neuman: Oh Ive plenty. [10:31] Ruin Nefarious: Then start talking. [10:31] Bedauerter Neuman: Ill get the stuff from Johann later when hes done in the shower.

[10:33] Bedauerter Neuman: I said Ill wait for him to give me the notecard with everything so I can give it to you.

[10:33] Ruin Nefarious: One thing. That's all I ask. What did I lie about?

[10:33] Bedauerter Neuman: Does it make sense, fifth grader?

[10:34] Ruin Nefarious: Clever insult there. Go on.

[10:34] Bedauerter Neuman: Well thats the issue. You lied about so much, I might as well give you the list. Once. I. Get. It.

[10:34] Ruin Nefarious: . . Ha ha ha ha.

[10:34] Ruin Nefarious: You've got nothing.

[10:34] Bedauerter Neuman: Um... not on me no. I could try to tell you what I remember word for word.

[10:35] Bedauerter Neuman: Or you can read and eat your own words?

[10:35] Ruin Nefarious: Ha ha, uh huh.

[10:35] Bedauerter Neuman: Like... I suggest checking out the first pick in Johanns profile.

[10:35] Bedauerter Neuman: Gold.

[10:35] Ruin Nefarious: How is that lying?

[10:35] Ruin Nefarious: Do you know the circumstance?

[10:35] Ruin Nefarious: No.

[10:35] Bedauerter Neuman: Well you thought - I do, actually.

[10:36] Bedauerter Neuman: Its very simple. Your whole defending him, was just defending yourself.

[10:36] Ruin Nefarious: Really? So you must know the part where Johann was begging to rejoin and I said "well all right, you can. Mercz'll get over it."

[10:36] Bedauerter Neuman: Bawwww if you look bad to a group of traitors, eh?

[10:36] Ruin Nefarious: What part of that is lying?

[10:36] Bedauerter Neuman: I read that too. Then out of nowhere you say no. And mute him.

[10:36] Bedauerter Neuman: GG.

[10:37] Ruin Nefarious: Ha ha ha. Because he has proven to be a waste of time. Incessant babbling and histrionics without proof or reason.

[10:37] Ruin Nefarious: Apparently like his friends.

[10:37] Bedauerter Neuman: Do you want him to give you the notecards?

[10:37] Bedauerter Neuman: Its all your words, man.

[10:37] Bedauerter Neuman: You fucked yourself over.

[10:37] Ruin Nefarious: You don't seem very busy anymore. Why don't you tell me what I lied about?

[10:38] Bedauerter Neuman: Fine. If you give me... three minutes. Johann will hop on his account, send me the notecards, and then Ill hop back on and happily send them to you.

[10:38] Bedauerter Neuman: Fair enough?

[10:38] Ruin Nefarious: Ha ha ha. Sure.

[Kytec Switchblade]

ugh... johann was talking to me yesterday too, all he would do is rant about how your the devil or something and then when i told him to quit complaining about you he was just like oh i dont care about aryte, oh i dont care at all, but heres another 20 minutes of incessent rambling about me hating him with no clear reason.

Also, that particular merc has killed ordo members including civilians without reason or any chance whatsoever of it being a mistake.

[DamionStJames Webb]

This is all enough to bring me to tears - One because this guy is a complete dipshit, and two because I care greatly about Johann. But my personal feelings aside my loyalty is in the right place.

[Jester Spearmann]

2008/08/01 10:43] Bedauerter Neuman: Little assassin?

[2008/08/01 10:44] Ruin Nefarious: You sent me a series of notecards that detail Johann's twisted sense of belonging and truth, while demonstrating he's a selfish prick? Maybe the concept of "unanimous agreement from all those who've seen the two compared it was a fraudulent copy" doesn't ring a bell as well as it should.

[2008/08/01 10:44] Bedauerter Neuman: So youre saying the log given to him by another Praetorian is forged?

[2008/08/01 10:45] Bedauerter Neuman: And in no part of that is he selfish. Id like to see you actually tell someone that made RL sacrifices and used up two years of his life for you without being asked...

[2008/08/01 10:46] Bedauerter Neuman: call someone like that selfish.

[2008/08/01 10:46] Ruin Nefarious: The part where I do it every day for 188 people.

[2008/08/01 10:46] Bedauerter Neuman: Oh, you make sacrifices? Willing to give them up at the blink of an eye for someone who doesnt care about you?

[2008/08/01 10:47] Ruin Nefarious: Willing to severe someone who has blatantly copied someone else's hard work, then persisted in lying to me as I tried to defend them from a large body of individuals I deeply respect? You bet.

[2008/08/01 10:48] Bedauerter Neuman: Ah yes, your better being is defending someone else. And then blaming them for your failure. Awesome.

[2008/08/01 10:48] Bedauerter Neuman: So tell me.

[2008/08/01 10:48] Ruin Nefarious: My failure? You mean trusting Johann?

[2008/08/01 10:48] Ruin Nefarious: That was indeed a failure on my part.

[2008/08/01 10:48] Bedauerter Neuman: If he had told you he copied the gun, what would you have done?

[2008/08/01 10:48] Bedauerter Neuman: Oh no. Trusting someone that has respect and loyalty to you. Better not trust them. Doesnt seem legit.

[2008/08/01 10:49] Bedauerter Neuman: But answer my question. Im dieing to hear this one.

[2008/08/01 10:49] Ruin Nefarious: Trusting someone who let me walk into a trap, then watched as I defended them, knowing they'd lied.

[2008/08/01 10:49] Ruin Nefarious: Removed him from the Praetorian Guard.

[2008/08/01 10:49] Bedauerter Neuman: And thats it?

[2008/08/01 10:50] Bedauerter Neuman: Well Aryte, he didnt want to lie to you. So he didnt. Which is why you blaming him for walking into a "trap" is bull. :/

[2008/08/01 10:50] Ruin Nefarious: Probably would have demoted him to Milites, considering the status-quo shown by the Merczateers.

[2008/08/01 10:50] Ruin Nefarious: Yes, he did. The gun is a blatant copy.

[2008/08/01 10:50] Bedauerter Neuman: Do you want the gun? It looks nothing like Vasilis shit.

[2008/08/01 10:50] Ruin Nefarious: It is Vasili's gun. With a new railing and a forward grip.

[2008/08/01 10:50] Bedauerter Neuman: But its still funny a group of copybotters can claim him to be one and hes the bad guy.

[2008/08/01 10:50] Ruin Nefarious: The railing made by Sera.

[2008/08/01 10:50] Ruin Nefarious: And the grip made by him.

[2008/08/01 10:50] Bedauerter Neuman: Sera told him how to make it.

[2008/08/01 10:51] Ruin Nefarious: Sera gave him the railing.

[2008/08/01 10:51] Ruin Nefarious: The prim work otherwise is identical down to .001.

[2008/08/01 10:51] Bedauerter Neuman: Thats not the latest.

[2008/08/01 10:51] Bedauerter Neuman: But at 130 some od, prims compared to 181, youre off your rocker.

[2008/08/01 10:51] Bedauerter Neuman: odd*

[2008/08/01 10:52] Ruin Nefarious: At first glance, no, it doesn't seem the same. Inspect the prim works.

[2008/08/01 10:52] Bedauerter Neuman: Inspect them.

[2008/08/01 10:52] Ruin Nefarious: The center piec eof the gun is identical.

[2008/08/01 10:52] Bedauerter Neuman: No its not?

[2008/08/01 10:52] Ruin Nefarious: Straight down to the same poor prim workings Vasili did.

[2008/08/01 10:53] Bedauerter Neuman: There is nothing on that gun the same as Vasilis from what I saw. He redid the stock though.

[2008/08/01 10:53] Bedauerter Neuman: And I saw plenty of Vasilis shit. I was in the Mercz.

[2008/08/01 10:54] Ruin Nefarious: Yes it is. Even if you right click>inspect. Check the timestamps. Note how the identical parts are all within a half second of eachother. Then note the railing and foregrip are the only ones that are huge intervals.

[2008/08/01 10:54] Bedauerter Neuman: Youre lieing again dude. Im looking at it right now. There are no half second time intervals.

[2008/08/01 10:55] Ruin Nefarious: . . Look at how quickly the prims were assembled.

[2008/08/01 10:56] Bedauerter Neuman: The closest timestamps are those that are identicle pieces that one can simply drag over.

[2008/08/01 10:56] Bedauerter Neuman: Oh noes a fast builder for a shitty gun?

[2008/08/01 10:56] Ruin Nefarious: Yeah, uh, I saw him working on a weapon a few months before this incident. It took him a week to assemble the forward portion of the barrel.

[2008/08/01 10:57] Ruin Nefarious: Not the span of an hour to assemble an entire weapon.

[2008/08/01 10:57] Bedauerter Neuman: Do you want the absolute latest version? Ill have Johann hop on again and grab it.

[2008/08/01 10:57] Bedauerter Neuman: You never saw him work on it...

[2008/08/01 10:57] Bedauerter Neuman: It never took him a week to do the forward barrel.

[2008/08/01 10:57] Bedauerter Neuman: Thats the easiest part.

[2008/08/01 10:58] Bedauerter Neuman: Also, Im guessing Krin was your little assassinator? Just curious.

[2008/08/01 10:58] Ruin Nefarious: Uhm, the entire reason I was so damn blown away is because I had seen him working on a G36 months before this whole incident. Yes, I certainly did see him working on a weapon, thus why I persisted to blindly defend him even as the odds were bloody apparent.

[2008/08/01 10:59] Bedauerter Neuman: The most hurtful lie to him was the one that happened over two years. And he wasnt working on any weapon months prior. He built it within days and has been fine tuning it since.

[2008/08/01 11:00] Bedauerter Neuman: Months prior he may have had a G36k, but it was one he bought from a vendor.

[2008/08/01 11:00] Bedauerter Neuman: From a company called KAC. He asked you if he could use it.

[2008/08/01 11:01] Bedauerter Neuman: When are you talking about? In March or something?

Uh oh the rest of the log?

Also, that particular merc has killed ordo members including civilians without reason or any chance whatsoever of it being a mistake.

And what merc?

Johann couldnt care less. hes told me this many times

[Aryte]

Thanks, Jester. Though curiously it seems as if you were trying to take a stab at me in the matter, rather than adding in the parts where Bedauerter sent me a collection of notecards that are the very same conversations that brought my decision to blacklist Johann. But that's fine, since they're already public conversations. I'll post them for everyone's viewing pleasure.

[Venes Dagger]

Fugger ran :o

[Jester Spearmann]

Aryte Vesperia wrote:

Thanks, Jester. Though curiously it seems as if you were trying to take a stab at me in the matter, rather than adding in the parts where Bedauerter sent me a collection of notecards that are the very same conversations that brought my decision to blacklist Johann. But that's fine, since they're already public conversations. I'll post them for everyone's viewing pleasure.

And accomplish what. the only thing joh misses about the Ordo are his friends. that and the praeda he said

im not taking a stab at anyone. im simply showing the truth which a lot of people dont want to see or know

[Aryte]

He apologized to me, Jester. He apologized to me then did a 180, and started going off on a ramble about how I had to apologize to him. After which I told him no way, as I certainly do not feel I've any reason to apologize when my only wrong was buying his story. I was letting him rejoin. His pick, the one where he's quoting another private conversation we had on MSN, the:

[19:29] Aryte: But frankly, Lurdan will swallow it because he's essentially let Merczateers become the social club for ex-Ordo and traitors.

Was me telling him "well okay, you can rejoin. Mercz will get over it, because they keep inviting all of the dysfunctionals." Here's the log to that:

[19:19] Aryte: [00:52] Johann von Messer: my loyalty never faltered throughout though. and i am still entirely yours.

[19:20] Aryte: Would that not mean faith regardless of opinion?

[19:21] Johann von Messer: I'm not exactly sure what the question means, but you have my loyalty. I still have faith in you that you will turn these mistakes around, and stop doing stuff that the AN revels in. As for my trust in you.... There is some. But I can't say I trust you as much as before with all of the stuff I know now. That can easily change for the better or worse though. Just depends what happens next.

[19:22] Johann von Messer: Oh wait. Beda helped me. Let me see.

[19:22] Johann von Messer: Hmm. It could be interpreted as such. But as intertwined as faith, loyalty and trust are, they are very different... foundations, so to speak.

[19:23] Johann von Messer: Essentially, three pillars holding the same building up.

[19:24] Johann von Messer: I mean, think of this dilema I have: This is far from a society. I can see a few people's hopes that it transcends into such, but I highly doubt it ever will. It's obviously just a group of people with the same idea about what's going on. What it could possibly do I have no idea.

[19:24] Johann von Messer: And with that info.

[19:25] Johann von Messer: I could give you more info, as I don't know how much you know.

[19:25] Johann von Messer: But then I also have a loyalty to them that you lost from me, they are my friends. Where as you proved to me over two years that we were not friends.

[19:25] Johann von Messer: I have to admit though.

[19:25] Johann von Messer: I am very thankful that you at least treated me the way I deserved.

[19:27] Aryte: We'll get you reapplied.

[19:27] Aryte: The Mercz'll get over it.

[19:27] Johann von Messer: I tried hard being your friend. you wouldn't let me. That's why when you tried 'pleading' to me- The mercz are over it. They've been over it.

[19:28] Johann von Messer: Fuck them for getting butthurt that I can build better than them. But you have a few of them defecting to the Ordo, possibly Phillip who has been here today longer than I. And he looked at the gun and all of the info and said that Lurdan and Vasili were obviously wrong.

[19:28] Johann von Messer: He said Vasili was just bitching someone outdid him.

[19:28] Johann von Messer: As I've been told, that the second I left Salamis they were pretty much going: 'wuts a johann?'

[19:28] Johann von Messer: Which is good, it's better.

[19:29] Johann von Messer: My brother who was in the Mercz at the time confirmed it.

[19:29] Aryte: I have no doubt in my mind it was illegally copied. And I also know Lurdan is apprehensive about the notion. But frankly, Lurdan will swallow it because he's essentially let Merczateers become the social club for ex-Ordo and traitors.

[19:30] Johann von Messer: Well. I find it just absolutely histerical that a group of copy botters and cheats will blame me for actually putting effort into building a weapon.

[19:30] Johann von Messer: I've no idea how you can doubt the authenticity.

[19:30] Johann von Messer: When over eight people watched me build it.

[19:30] Johann von Messer: Most Ordo members.

[19:31] Johann von Messer: Do you want the gun?

[19:31] Aryte: Prim measurements down to .001 matching. Timestamps equal, spare the two parts not identical to Vasilis (the rails and the foregrip). Trails of lies, such as "Johann said he bought it full perms, so I didn't think it was a problem he was copying it."

[19:31] Aryte: Admission from people who provided you with the script.

[19:31] Aryte: Etc.

[19:32] Johann von Messer: People that provided me with what script?

[19:32] Johann von Messer: Also, anotehr point I wanted to bring up.

[19:32] Johann von Messer: You said I betrayed you and all that wonderful stuff, but you never told me what exactly I did. Which really leads me to think there was nothing.

[19:32] Johann von Messer: I can honestly understand having kicked me just for saving your own skin.

[19:32] Aryte: You lied to me, and left me hanging while repeatedly lying to me.

[19:33] Johann von Messer: And what was the lie, Aryte? You won't tell me any of this stuff.

[19:33] Aryte: ..

[19:33] Aryte: "I made it."

[19:33] Johann von Messer: yes. I did.

[19:33] Aryte: "I dragged out all the prims before I built it, that's why the timestamps are the same!"

[19:33] Aryte: Make up your mind. One day it is your fault, the next day you play innocent.

[19:34] Johann von Messer: Well. To be completely honest, if I had not lied to you and said all of that stuff, you wouldn't be talking to me, now would you?

[19:34] Johann von Messer: That's the best part of all of this.

[19:34] Johann von Messer: i know what you want me to say.

[19:34] Johann von Messer: but you don't want me to lie.

[19:34] Johann von Messer: Which is the paradox.

[19:34] Aryte: So your apology and you being at fault was just lying?

[19:34] Johann von Messer: No. What I took blame for was what happened to you.

[19:35] Aryte: Which was me being left out to dry as you lied to me.

[19:35] Johann von Messer: And I am sorry for that. More sorry that I have to take the blame for not telling you, my superior, to fuck off in front of the mercz? :/

[19:35] Johann von Messer: Did you TP me home?

[19:35] Johann von Messer: just asking.

[19:36] Johann von Messer: Aryte. If I had my way at that point in time, I would not have had you come. I was not asked if you could come, I was not told you were being TPed. I had no idea you would be involved until you appeared right before me.

[19:36] Aryte: Set sim to group only.

[19:36] Johann von Messer: Ah.

[19:36] Johann von Messer: But as I was saying.

[19:36] Aryte: Lol. Just lol.

[19:36] Aryte: Done. Forget it.

[19:36] Aryte: I was beginning to give a shit.

And yet he says that log is a conclusive note I am a horrible traitor? What? He begs to be let back in and I say "well okay, fine," and he now uses that to prove I am evil? I don't get it.

[Jester Spearmann]

Aryte Vesperia wrote:

He apologized to me, Jester. He apologized to me then did a 180, and started going off on a ramble about how I had to apologize to him. After which I told him no way, as I certainly do not feel I've any reason to apologize when my only wrong was buying his story. I was letting him rejoin. His pick, the one where he's quoting another private conversation we had on MSN, the:

[19:29] Aryte: But frankly, Lurdan will swallow it because he's essentially let Merczateers become the social club for ex-Ordo and traitors.

Was me telling him "well okay, you can rejoin. Mercz will get over it, because they keep inviting all of the dysfunctionals." Here's the log to that:

[19:19] Aryte: [00:52] Johann von Messer: my loyalty never faltered throughout though. and i am still entirely yours.

[19:20] Aryte: Would that not mean faith regardless of opinion?

[19:21] Johann von Messer: I'm not exactly sure what the question means, but you have my loyalty. I still have faith in you that you will turn these mistakes around, and stop doing stuff that the AN revels in. As for my trust in you.... There is some. But I can't say I trust you as much as before with all of the stuff I know now. That can easily change for the better or worse though. Just depends what happens next.

[19:22] Johann von Messer: Oh wait. Beda helped me. Let me see.

[19:22] Johann von Messer: Hmm. It could be interpreted as such. But as intertwined as faith, loyalty and trust are, they are very different... foundations, so to speak.

[19:23] Johann von Messer: Essentially, three pillars holding the same building up.

[19:24] Johann von Messer: I mean, think of this dilema I have: This is far from a society. I can see a few people's hopes that it transcends into such, but I highly doubt it ever will. It's obviously just a group of people with the same idea about what's going on. What it could possibly do I have no idea.

[19:24] Johann von Messer: And with that info.

[19:25] Johann von Messer: I could give you more info, as I don't know how much you know.

[19:25] Johann von Messer: But then I also have a loyalty to them that you lost from me, they are my friends. Where as you proved to me over two years that we were not friends.

[19:25] Johann von Messer: I have to admit though.

[19:25] Johann von Messer: I am very thankful that you at least treated me the way I deserved.

[19:27] Aryte: We'll get you reapplied.

[19:27] Aryte: The Mercz'll get over it.

[19:27] Johann von Messer: I tried hard being your friend. you wouldn't let me. That's why when you tried 'pleading' to me- The mercz are over it. They've been over it.

[19:28] Johann von Messer: Fuck them for getting butthurt that I can build better than them. But you have a few of them defecting to the Ordo, possibly Phillip who has been here today longer than I. And he looked at the gun and all of the info and said that Lurdan and Vasili were obviously wrong.

[19:28] Johann von Messer: He said Vasili was just bitching someone outdid him.

[19:28] Johann von Messer: As I've been told, that the second I left Salamis they were pretty much going: 'wuts a johann?'

[19:28] Johann von Messer: Which is good, it's better.

[19:29] Johann von Messer: My brother who was in the Mercz at the time confirmed it.

[19:29] Aryte: I have no doubt in my mind it was illegally copied. And I also know Lurdan is apprehensive about the notion. But frankly, Lurdan will swallow it because he's essentially let Merczateers become the social club for ex-Ordo and traitors.

[19:30] Johann von Messer: Well. I find it just absolutely histerical that a group of copy botters and cheats will blame me for actually putting effort into building a weapon.

[19:30] Johann von Messer: I've no idea how you can doubt the authenticity.

[19:30] Johann von Messer: When over eight people watched me build it.

[19:30] Johann von Messer: Most Ordo members.

[19:31] Johann von Messer: Do you want the gun?

[19:31] Aryte: Prim measurements down to .001 matching. Timestamps equal, spare the two parts not identical to Vasilis (the rails and the foregrip). Trails of lies, such as "Johann said he bought it full perms, so I didn't think it was a problem he was copying it."

[19:31] Aryte: Admission from people who provided you with the script.

[19:31] Aryte: Etc.

[19:32] Johann von Messer: People that provided me with what script?

[19:32] Johann von Messer: Also, anotehr point I wanted to bring up.

[19:32] Johann von Messer: You said I betrayed you and all that wonderful stuff, but you never told me what exactly I did. Which really leads me to think there was nothing.

[19:32] Johann von Messer: I can honestly understand having kicked me just for saving your own skin.

[19:32] Aryte: You lied to me, and left me hanging while repeatedly lying to me.

[19:33] Johann von Messer: And what was the lie, Aryte? You won't tell me any of this stuff.

[19:33] Aryte: ..

[19:33] Aryte: "I made it."

[19:33] Johann von Messer: yes. I did.

[19:33] Aryte: "I dragged out all the prims before I built it, that's why the timestamps are the same!"

[19:33] Aryte: Make up your mind. One day it is your fault, the next day you play innocent.

[19:34] Johann von Messer: Well. To be completely honest, if I had not lied to you and said all of that stuff, you wouldn't be talking to me, now would you?

[19:34] Johann von Messer: That's the best part of all of this.

[19:34] Johann von Messer: i know what you want me to say.

[19:34] Johann von Messer: but you don't want me to lie.

[19:34] Johann von Messer: Which is the paradox.

[19:34] Aryte: So your apology and you being at fault was just lying?

[19:34] Johann von Messer: No. What I took blame for was what happened to you.

[19:35] Aryte: Which was me being left out to dry as you lied to me.

[19:35] Johann von Messer: And I am sorry for that. More sorry that I have to take the blame for not telling you, my superior, to fuck off in front of the mercz? :/

[19:35] Johann von Messer: Did you TP me home?

[19:35] Johann von Messer: just asking.

[19:36] Johann von Messer: Aryte. If I had my way at that point in time, I would not have had you come. I was not asked if you could come, I was not told you were being TPed. I had no idea you would be involved until you appeared right before me.

[19:36] Aryte: Set sim to group only.

[19:36] Johann von Messer: Ah.

[19:36] Johann von Messer: But as I was saying.

[19:36] Aryte: Lol. Just lol.

[19:36] Aryte: Done. Forget it.

[19:36] Aryte: I was beginning to give a shit.

And yet he says that log is a conclusive note I am a horrible traitor? What? He begs to be let back in and I say "well okay, fine," and he now uses that to prove I am evil? I don't get it.

when did he do the 180 ? you were going to let him back in, then you just decided no ? thats what it looks like.

[Aryte]

You've read them. Hell, he's passing them and everything else I've ever said to him around.

Here's the first, the apology. Actually, hell, let's start with where I had him resign.

June 14th.

[19:09] Aryte: It doesn't add up. You don't drag out tons of prims and then assemble a weapon. Even so, that has /zero/ explanation (here is fine) as to why the only part that is unique has very lengthy timestamps.

[19:11] Johann von Messer: :nods: Gut dann... Am I kicked?

[19:12] Aryte: The evidence is overwhelming. I have no way to defend you.

[19:12] Johann von Messer: I wasn't expecting you to, Sir.

[19:15] Aryte: You are one of my oldest members and I love you like a brother. I do not understand why a G36 is, was, or ever will be worth it. I can't understand why someone who's been there, seen it happen, seen how easy it is to get caught. . go through and do that.

[19:15] Johann von Messer: Well, sir. I didn't. It's that simple.

[19:15] Johann von Messer: I do not deny the evidence.

[19:16] Aryte: There is no viable explanation.

[19:17] Johann von Messer: But what else do you expect someone to do? Their guns were outsourced. I never got wind of what was copied. But I make one, and by it merely being the same weapon, built with the most basic, pathetic methods of a non-builder, it's a copy of theirs.

[19:17] Johann von Messer: They want blood for what Christoph did. And I walked into their line of sight.

[19:17] Aryte: Yes, but you walked into their line of sight with a model that is identical in shape and prim work, with timestamps that point clearly to copied by a script.

[19:18] Johann von Messer: Then I will remake it. I will make each prim new. Five minutes spans from one another. And it will look like the plans I had for the prim work of v.67

[19:18] Johann von Messer: But they will still whine and cry because I have the same gun as them.

[19:18] Aryte: That doesn't change anything.

[19:19] Johann von Messer: Exactly. It doesn't change anything.

[19:19] Johann von Messer: So why is this a problem?

[19:19] Aryte: Because . . it looks like a Praetorian and a good friend of mine prim copied a weapon belonging to our allies?

[19:19] Johann von Messer: My gun will just continue to be bettered by long work.

[19:20] Johann von Messer: Well. Praetorian true, I can't say anything about the title of 'good friend,' and the prim copying I can outright deny because it never happened.

[19:21] Aryte: I don't know what to tell you.

[19:21] Johann von Messer: That's why I never asked you to say anything.

[19:21] Johann von Messer: That was Lurdan.

[19:22] Johann von Messer: I mean. Isn't there another military out there? Or was? That had the M4A1 that we do?

[19:22] Johann von Messer: Did we baw that it looked similar because it was the same gun?

[19:22] Johann von Messer: Hell. Sera made a G3 of her own, and no one said anything.

[19:23] Aryte: Because it doesn't look anything like Vasili's. The prim work is entirely different. The prims were created individually over the span of hours.

[19:23] Johann von Messer: So I found a time efficient way of rezzing prims. And that's a crime.

[19:23] Aryte: Johann. I don't buy it. There is no way.

[19:24] Aryte: Concidence went out the window a long time ago. The prims are identically shaped and sized. They are assembled just like Vasili's. And the timestamps are within seconds.

[19:25] Aryte: When I saw you building your G36, you did not have a pile of cubes sitting next to you.

[19:25] Johann von Messer: Well. I plan on changing most of the prim work in v.67. I've said this multiple times. I can't help that a G36 looks like a G36. I love the G36. So I built one. I hate that massive handrail that the original has, so I made the rail one that looks so much better. And Vasili did the same.

[19:27] Johann von Messer: The new version is hopefully going to have a significant lack of prims. SL permitting.

[19:27] Johann von Messer: And everything that was to exact to my model for everyone elses tastes, I will change.

[19:27] Aryte: That doesn't change the situation we have.

[19:27] Johann von Messer: I can't help that I have a fucking G36K sitting on my bed next to me, and thought: Hey, what a wonderful model to use.

[19:29] Aryte: Johann.

[19:29] Aryte: Listen to me.

[19:29] Aryte: The prim work is the fucking same. Five hundred builders can all work on the same gun, and the prim working isn't going to be identical.

[19:29] Aryte: Everyone has their own style.

[19:29] Johann von Messer: Then what is the situation? I have embaressed you. Not sure how to spell that word. And you will punish me as you see fit.

[19:30] Aryte: I don't have a choice.

[19:31] Johann von Messer: If you remove me from the Praetorian guard, I understand. If you remove me from Ordo, I understand. I can't exactly say I felt this friendly love you say you've always had for me. You could have fooled me. :/

[19:31] Johann von Messer: It will devestate me. But I've devestated you, multiple times, I'm sure.

[19:33] Johann von Messer: Two years to you... I wish it could have ended better.

[19:33] Johann von Messer: But I guess that's my fault I managed to actually build something.

[19:36] Aryte: This isn't easy.

[19:41] Aryte: Resign and bow out quietly. You will take your legacy and good name. No one will be the wiser. Otherwise I have to build a case and explain. As much as I want to believe you, there is just no way I can.

[19:41] Johann von Messer: I don't have a good name though.

[19:42] Aryte: Now isn't the time for self pity and dramatics.

[19:42] Johann von Messer: But I'll resign... Any chance after some time of reapplying. Starting from the bottom, of course.

[19:42] Aryte: Yes.

[19:42] Johann von Messer: It isn't self pity. I'm honestly saying I haven't done anything for a good name. No one liked me so. :P

[19:42] Aryte: I. Liked. You.

[19:42] Johann von Messer: I find it hard to believe. :/

[19:42] Aryte: If you don't want to believe me, that's fine. I made you a Praetorian.

[19:43] Johann von Messer: I know you did.

[19:43] Aryte: That should speak for itself.

[19:43] Johann von Messer: But.

[19:43] Johann von Messer: I feel that that was more seniority, and a false sense of security on both of our parts.

[19:43] Aryte: If I didn't like you, I would have ejected you in Badnarik, rather than sitting in Mercz Ventrilo trying to defend or come up with an explanation while outnumbered eight to one.

[19:44] Johann von Messer: No one asked you to, Sir..

[19:44] Aryte: No one had to ask me to. Because I give a fuck about you.

[19:45] Johann von Messer: Wish I felt that way. I'm leaving the groups now.

[19:45] Johann von Messer: I'm assuming you want me out of the brotherhood group too, ja?

[19:45] Aryte: No.

[19:45] Johann von Messer: No, Sir?

[19:46] Aryte: No, I don't.

[19:46] Johann von Messer: TI?

[19:47] Aryte: No.

[19:51] Johann von Messer: All done.

[19:52] Aryte: I'm not making this public.

[19:52] Johann von Messer: I don't mind whatever it is you do.

[19:52] Johann von Messer: I'm... in a sense 'with' it all the way.

[19:52] Aryte: You're taking a break, as far as anyone is concerned. Don't alienate yourself.

[19:53] Johann von Messer: Break without reinstatement. Lol.

[19:53] Johann von Messer: That works.

[19:53] Aryte: We'll see.

[19:53] Aryte: But open your eyes. I don't hate you.

His first letter.

A very large, unwanted, confusing incedent has occured. It has set off a chain of reactions that threaten the Ordo, whether one wants to believe it or not. So many things rush through my mind at once. I am really in shock of all of these things. Most things of anger. The rest angst.

This is pretty much a collection of all of my feelings and questions, written over the course of days. How I percieved things to have happened, and what they really are. There is a large chance you will not like these. But no one likes the truth unless it is flattering. The Ordo stood for something great once. And then it was tainted. When you shit on it.

It is a shared feeling that many of us have been betrayed. Not because you won't break bonds with the Mercz, which is a crazy idea to begin with. But because you traded your followers' happiness and pride so you could stay in the Merczateers' good sights. You have given them fear. You have broken the fatherly bond you have with your soldiers by giving up one of your own. Some have left, and many will follow as I have been told, but I wouldn't know unless they told me, like everyone has been.

This is the last thing I want for the Ordo. I had no intentions of this. But your actions have done this.

Ein neuer Tag-

So, more things have come into the light, and it is another day spent to process what is going on. And I feel relief, but even more betrayed.

So you want me back, which is what you somewhat stated to me before, yet I was unsure of it. Fine. That works. But what hurts more is that just to have me back, you found it necessary to kick me when there were so many other ways to handle it. Just to get out of the spotlight, when the Mercz right then and there under their own right and 'thinking' minds had already done it. I wasn't in the spotlight any more. But to appease them you kick me. Which is understandable if I had done something wrong. But then you keep a secret, somewhat from me, but from the entirety of the Ordo that I wasn't wrong and that I would be back. That seems very underhanded for someone we all look up to, when the masses are tired of the Mercz' BS and want me to return.

Again. I do not support what everyone who signed that petition, or secretly wanted to, want. Since the moment you kicked me, I've had nothing to do with the Ordo. All of those people trying to get something to work out are doing this on their own, but because they care for me and love me. And if not for me, for the sanctity of the Ordo.

Naturally a military is no collection of thoughts of several individuals, and this card will probably mean nothing or do nothing if more than just anger you and make you dislike me more. And we can not deny you are treating us any differently than you treat any other army, but that is the whole point of our faith in you. And it is a great responsibility. We have seen you falter with it.

'Loyalty is to devote one's self to a single cause despite one's best interests.'

This is what we do. This is what you did.

But, we should really look at this as the inevitable. Every group will have its series of downfalls, and the Ordo had its first. I only pray that it will keep going, and rise above this to new heights.

I seem to be going on somewhat offcourse. So I shall return to my thoughts.

And one thing that really stood out with me this whole time, is that I am glad I never believed your 'love' for me or the friend thing, as you have in multiple steps gone agaisnt all you promised. Not to mention saying that you used to like me and I was your friend. Oh well. Maybe with the restart we can become friends and you can like me. I always loved you, always wanted to be your friend, but probably just like the other 140 fanboys and -girls you have.

And this is where the one thing I learned in high school, German class, consequentally comes in to play. I can see right through what you claim. But I can just as easily see why you say them. It is important that you say them. For calling a random person you've talked to maybe three times in open chat one of your favorite members is in fact important. It keeps that sense of pride going, the sense of unity and being wanted and needed.

I find it funny you tell me not to alienate myself when in an instant you did it for me. And then expect me to act like nothing happened. I only wish it were so. Well. I will make a promise to you, one you couldn't keep. This will remain private on my end. Whether you choose to show it off is up to you. I just hope you don't alter it any.

Couple days. And now comes more reality, not so harsh.

Obviously, you see how important all of this is to me. I really couldn't care less about my integrity in the Mercz. From what my brother says, it's not even worth being part of them. But what does matter to me is the Ordo. And it has always been on my mind, as I have always been there to watch over it, guard its glorious and virtuous principles. I have watched its birth. And I have watched it rise above all others. I only wish I had done more as a mover and shaker of the organization. I was hoping to build weapons or the like, but I didn't know what was wanted/needed and I certainly doubt I'll ever learn to script.

And just as important as the Ordo itself, is you. Not a day goes by where you don't pass through my mind in some shape or form. My loyalty and love has not wavered since that wonderful day you led us to victory against the AN, and it still stands, even stronger, today. Through all choices you have made, no matter their outcome in the near or far future, I have stood by you. And my greatest wish is to stand by you still.

What upsets me, is not that I was kicked from the Ordo, but how you have treated me thus far. It fills me with sorrow, that you do not talk to me at all, but you call me such a friend. Then again, you did use past tense, so that could very well have changed. But I still need that full-front confrontation of words to tell me how things are.

I would not dream that neither of us have faults in this. Ours are extremely different. What I have done, is cause you more stress than I could ever wish on a person. And it is extremely wrong and selfish of me to do that. You trusted me. I was a Praetorian. And that is how I repaid you, regardless of it being without conscienceness. I can only hope that you could forgive me.

What I dream of from you is to simply talk to me. And tell me how you really feel, sparing me of small-talk and trying to not hurt my feelings. I'm far from deserving of that. I do deserve the truth though. That is certain.

To be 100% honest, I feel that my loyalty and seniority and ability were constantly ignored or downplayed. Of course, that was not only you. It was many in the Ordo. But their opinions of such only matters when it inhibits me, and that did happen a lot. But that is past, and it will continue, so one learns to live with it.

I'm rather anxious to send this off to you. As I tried hard to get every thought and feeling down in here, but it is in turn wearing me down to think about this stuff. It hurts a lot to have been tossed aside so easily, after what I have given to you, as my leader. And I'm rather sure I'll think of ten other things I could have added, but that's how it goes. Heh.

This letter is entirely confidential on my end, still. What you do with it is for you, as this is between you and me.

I guess what I want to know most of all. And please think this through before answering. I want to know what you, Brandon, think. I was nothing but a loyal servant of yours for two and a half years, who had all of his faith and love in you. Why have you forsaken me? Were the Mercz worth ruining two years of my life? I'll never understand why they were.

I know you have a wonderful talent of replying to things in mere seconds. But please... could you humor me into thinking this took you time, should you reply? :D

The apology.

[20:12] Johann von Messer: I'd make it more drawn out and -actually- apologize. But I'm sure you don't want to hear it, if ever. So I'll save it for now.

[20:13] Aryte: I haven't replied to your first letter yet.

[20:13] Johann von Messer: But please. If and when you are ready to let me apologize, let me know some how?

[20:14] Johann von Messer: You don't have to, if all it takes is a little talk and a... remake of my vow to you.

[20:14] Aryte: I'll reply here, I guess.

[20:15] Aryte: Let's see here.

[20:17] Aryte: "The Ordo stood for something great once. And then it was tainted. When you shit on it." I'll cover that throughout the body, rather than going out of order.

[20:18] Aryte: "It is a shared feeling that many of us have been betrayed. Not because you won't break bonds with the Mercz. . You have broken the fatherly bond you have with your soldiers by giving up one of your own. Some have left, and many will follow as I have been told," I don't agree. I'm not obligated to be fatherly when I'm pissed on. I'll address that in a moment. No one left, however.

[20:18] Aryte: Ah blah, not going through this like bullet.

[20:18] Aryte: s.

[20:18] Aryte: I'll make it blunt.

[20:22] Aryte: "Fuck you" would be a pretty brief summary. Otherwise, what are you on to make you feel you have the right to accuse me of betraying you? I'm sorry, maybe it wasn't apparent to you at the time, but of the eight people standing around you throwing stones, I was the one catching them. I was the one on Mercz Ventrilo, going "Oh no, no. Johann'd never do that. There must be some mistake." I was the one left /hanging/ out to dry and blatantly humiliated in front of a channel full of people, two of which I deeply respect and have been friends with (but apparently I'm not your friend?) as long as I've been your own. I have zero obligation to be kind or caring. You lied to me, you betrayed my trust, you continued to lie to me for the sake of trying to hold your own image, letting me walk into a pretty shitty situation because I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

[20:24] Johann von Messer: (( I'll reply if you'd like me to when you are done. Brb ))

[20:25] Johann von Messer: (( Back. ))

[20:27] Aryte: You sank your own battleship, buddy. Don't play the virtue, "oh I want to be by your side, oh I love the Ordo" card. I'm pretty hard pressed to feel bad or give a damn that you screwed the pooch on your own two years. If displaying a foolish amount of selflessless and blind devotion by hurling myself into something, trusting your word, is reason to label me a traitor to you as a friend. Fuck, guilty as charged. Hang me.

[20:29] Johann von Messer: May I reply?

[20:29] Aryte: Sure.

[20:31] Johann von Messer: I expected no less than this. And you are right, 100%. You took a huge dive there for me. And I have no idea why to this day. As for the whole friend thing... I still hold that true. I honestly... never really felt so close to you as you always claimed. So there was no way for me to feel that special bond you have with your other friends as it was never shown to me. I won't play that card, >>>

[20:33] Johann von Messer: Since you told me not to. But that is exactly how I feel actually, heh. I never wanted nor asked you to step in to that. In fact I highly prefered that you didn't. But I don't blame you at all for it. It is all mine as I have said many times before. But where this comes from of breaking your trust I will need more explanation. All I did was build a gun, and the Mercz flipped. If I need to >>>

[20:36] Johann von Messer: apologize to them as well, I most certainly will. But unlike them, you deserve that and much more. I just wish I knew of a way to redeem myself enough. I fucked up. But how that screwed up two years that I gave to you with no doubt is beyond me. I wanted to put many more years to that in whatever way possible and still do. I never claimed you to be a traitor to me as a friend, since you couldn't>

[20:39] Johann von Messer: I only wanted to be your friend and the best worker for your greater good. I failed at it, and it has been weighing heavily on me, it really has. I want to redeem myself, I want your forgiveness as I've forgiven many people in this. You still have my utmost devotion, even more so it is renewed. I'm not sure what else to say but the random latin gibberish that practically sum up everything I've >>>

[20:39] Johann von Messer: been wanting to say and have said. Erratum meum est. Errator sum. Mea culpa.

[20:40] Johann von Messer: Is Lurdan on, by any chance?

[20:42] Aryte: I know, Johann.

[20:42] Aryte: No, he isn't. Anthony is, however.

[20:42] Johann von Messer: Hmm.

[20:42] Johann von Messer: Should I apologize to him?

[20:42] Aryte: That is your choice.

[20:42] Johann von Messer: I'm obligated to Apologize to the Mercz as a whole, but Lurdan was there.

[20:42] Aryte: Lurdan just logged on.

[20:43] Johann von Messer: Ah.. Good. I will go to Salamis then, unless you think I shouldn't.

[20:44] Johann von Messer: One thing I kinda want to stress. I'm still yours. I've done nothing but follow your words and I want to do nothing else. If there is an thing or group of things I can do to make up for my actions, please tell me and I will do them.

[20:44] Johann von Messer: And also with your words, I ask would it be a good move to go there and apologize?

[20:44] Aryte: It is your decision, I can't make that for you.

[20:44] Johann von Messer: Well. I don't want it to come back and hit you, which it most undoubtedly will.

[20:45] Johann von Messer: My friends in there had said that once it was done with they never mentioned it. So maybe they will listen to me.

[20:45] Johann von Messer: And I am banned from Salamis.

[20:45] Johann von Messer: I'll IM him.

[20:46] Aryte: It is closed at the moment, I don't believe you're banned.

[20:46] Johann von Messer: Oh.

[20:46] Johann von Messer: I couldn't TP in, so I wasn't sure.

[20:46] Johann von Messer: It jsut said no valid parcel, which is what it says when Bedauerter tries to go to TMF's base.

[20:46] Johann von Messer: He's an admiral in the Adeptus Minor now. He looks forward to meeting you.

The twist.

Hello, Aryte. This is really another chance at trying to get some info, not subtle but without the 'how dare you this and that blah blah blah.' Since you won't talk to me, I'll just lay out everything for you.

A short list of demands, if you can call them that; to simply talk to you, and an apology in any way shape or form.

Now, obviously you will think, why should I do any of your demands? Why would you deserve them? (Unless my theory is correct, that is.)

Basically, IM me and yell at me, proving me wrong in all of my thoughts, and showing to me what I did wrong; actually lay it out for me. By doing so, you will have vented, you may win the conversation, and you will have given me the first 'demand' at my expense.

All I want is to get this settled. The way that this could end perfectly for me, is if you tell me your side and your demands from me, and I will naturally do them. Then we pretend it never happened and we return to things the way they were, -MODDIFIED as it will be on YOUR TERMS,- of course.

That's my ultimate goal, and naturally it will not be so easy because you think you have been wronged and have yet to disclose how to me.

As for the apology that I want, I'm more than open for it. I want it to be on your terms. And as for how it is done, you of course do not have to say anything that will hurt your ego. It can be an action that is for -our- benefits, or it can be words; be creative?

You've done very well pretending it never happened telling everyone and whatnot. And I am a little upset you never read my notecard. Or if you did, you only had problems with the first section. But this is a testament of myself to you. I present you with what I want, but it is still at my expense and your benefit.

So with this, I hope it to be your final blow letting us get somewhere.

My reply.

I'm not apologizing for anything. I don't owe you one. The only thing I'm sorry about is the fact I thought you were above this and let myself get drawn into a firing squad on your behalf.

Nor am I going out of my way to talk with you when I've things to do, purely to sate your wish of "mending things." I didn't fuck up, I'm not the one obligated to try to put a bandaid on the situation. You go get a written pardon from Anthony, Lurdan, and Vasili; then we'll talk.

It's on the forums. There's no pretending it didn't happen. If someone wants to know, I'd be happy to tell them you betrayed my trust and left me hanging, and then decided it was my fault.

[Jester Spearmann]

well you promised him things over and over and then lied to him over and over ?

i still dont see a 180

[Aryte]

What did I promise to him and then lied to him about? Shall I dig out his "Aryte lied" note? Let's go for it.

These are apparently what I lied about.

14.6.2008 21:18:59 Eques ultrix sum Aryte But they will still whine and cry because I have the same gun as them.

14.6.2008 21:19:01 Aryte Eques ultrix sum That doesn't change anything.

14.6.2008 21:19:12 Eques ultrix sum Aryte Exactly. It doesn't change anything.

14.6.2008 21:19:18 Eques ultrix sum Aryte So why is this a problem?

14.6.2008 21:19:43 Aryte Eques ultrix sum Because . . it looks like a Praetorian and a good friend of mine prim copied a weapon belonging to our allies?

14.6.2008 21:19:57 Eques ultrix sum Aryte My gun will just continue to be bettered by long work.

14.6.2008 21:20:49 Eques ultrix sum Aryte Well. Praetorian true, I can't say anything about the title of 'good friend,' and the prim copying I can outright deny because it never happened.

His personal comment on it.

--- It's hard to prove friendship. But I've seen how Aryte treates his friends. I've seen how I treat my friends. And I've seen how my friends treat me. This was never the case with Aryte and I.

My reply: How can someone judge who is and is not my friend? That is my decision to make. Putting someone on the Praetorian Guard, a role that I invest tremendous amounts of trust into . . is pretty much a "you're one of my bffs." I am a very busy individual. I do not have time to run around playing grab ass or bake cakes with my friends. I'm sorry. My fault is I enjoy overworking and when I have free time it is spent with someone who's name starts with an R.

14.6.2008 21:42:31 Eques ultrix sum Aryte It isn't self pity. I'm honestly saying I haven't done anything for a good name. No one liked me so. :P

14.6.2008 21:42:39 Aryte Eques ultrix sum I. Liked. You.

14.6.2008 21:42:53 Eques ultrix sum Aryte I find it hard to believe. :/

14.6.2008 21:42:59 Aryte Eques ultrix sum If you don't want to believe me, that's fine. I made you a Praetorian.

His argument is a logfile of where we selected Praetorians? Including his section:

[22:53] Aryte Vesperia gave you Ordo Imperialis; Praetorian Eligibility - (Johann Wilberg).

[22:54] Kytec Switchblade: Done

[22:54] Aryte Vesperia: lol @ activity comment.

[22:54] Kytec Switchblade: lmao

[22:55] Grey Nolder: Completed, Comrade Imperator

[22:55] Aryte Vesperia: Speak freely.

[22:55] Timmahy Widget: Completed. :o

[22:55] Soul Carver: Completed.

[22:56] Timmahy Widget: He's fairly active during the wee hours of the morning, which is positive for sim defense, but possibly detrimental to his participation with the guard.

[22:56] Kytec Switchblade: He hits on me in im sometimes :x, ive seen some issues arise with him and some rules, cant recall what exactly, hes an experienced member and already has an officer position, i think he'd probably fit in fine, but i have to worry about him being a -pillar of the ordo society-

[22:56] Grey Nolder: He seems loyal and devoted, I see him around often. I can't speak too much about his skills in combat, but on more than one occassion I've witnessed him upholding regulations (in a respectful mannar) which I find admirable, leadership traits among compatriots.

[22:57] Soul Carver: Johann is definately active. He's a veteran member as well. Lately though, I've questioned his attitude, another officer and I were explaining something to him over coms and he felt he was being berrated, not sure if somethings going on in his life, but I think he might need to some sort of studying of the handbook.

[22:57] Timmahy Widget: Aye, I recall that.

[22:57] You: Finished.

[22:57] Soul Carver: Yeah, it was you an I, Timmahy.

[22:58] Aryte Vesperia: To be fair, a lot of folks get into defensive modes when addressed.

[22:58] Soul Carver: I remember someone else commenting negatively on him as well in that respect.

[22:58] Aryte Vesperia: And Johann is probably one of our oldest members.

[22:59] Timmahy Widget: A generic note I'd like to add is that all currently active Praetorians are developers... I don't know how well a non-dev would fit in.

[22:59] Kytec Switchblade isnt :o

[23:00] Timmahy Widget: You make stuff. <_<

[23:00] Aryte Vesperia: True, but it may be good to also destroy the image that they're all builders.

[23:00] Kytec Switchblade: yah, but i havnt been given any real projects XD

[23:00] Timmahy Widget: True.

[23:00] Aryte Vesperia: I think Johann is real burned out on Astra.

[23:00] Soul Carver: Yeah, you make stuff Kytec, Even if you havent made anything specifically for the Ordo.

[23:00] Soul Carver: Ahh.

[23:00] Aryte Vesperia: He's been Astra before Astra was Astra.

[23:00] Kytec Switchblade: once back in the day, uildiar used my sculpty fish :o

[23:00] Kytec Switchblade: and emma's doors use my sounds XD

[23:01] Soul Carver: Well, there you go then, you did contribute.

[23:01] Aryte Vesperia: He's never complained to me about it, but I know Joseph hates him because Johann never "comes to Joseph for assignments."

[23:01] Aryte Vesperia: (Of course, that's just Joseph trying to be lazy, as Joe should be ASSIGNING them.)

[23:01] Timmahy Widget: Lmao.

[23:02] Aryte Vesperia: Votes?

[23:02] Soul Carver: Should try and change that mindset >.>

[23:02] Timmahy Widget: Aye. I could see him as a Praetorian.

[23:02] You: Aye.

[23:02] Soul Carver: Aye - with positive marks in all respects

[23:03] Kytec Switchblade: Aye.

[23:03] Kytec Switchblade: wouldnt cause any more problems than grey does now *shakes fist* XD

[23:03] Grey Nolder: Aye, although I hardly know the man, and cannot pass a vote that will weigh too heavily on who he is.

[23:03] Aryte Vesperia: Aye then.

[23:03] Timmahy Widget: Be right back really quick. :o

[23:03] Aryte Vesperia: Very good.

[23:03] Aryte Vesperia: No problem. Let's take a couple minute break.

[23:04] Aryte Vesperia: Four left.

[23:04] Aryte Vesperia: We'll restart at 12:10.

My reply: What . . I don't see how that's me lying? I petitioned for him and vocalized my support for inviting him. Ask Kytec who spoke to him before the meeting about petitioning for Johann, because he was afraid some current Guard would shoot him down. Go ahead.

14.6.2008 21:52:05 Aryte Eques ultrix sum I'm not making this public.

His argument: I posted it on the forums, thus making it public.

My reply: You bet I did, after he forced my hand and made the matter a spectacle himself.

14.6.2008 21:53:39 Aryte Eques ultrix sum But open your eyes. I don't hate you.

His argument: can feel the love! Bans make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

My reply: Yes, you got yourself banned. Your homepoint was in my office. After that, you stood around in Titan having a shit fit. I put you KOS. JESTER REQUESTED I BAN YOU INSTEAD. Here:

[20:45] Jester Spearmann: can I ask that johann just be given an estate ban instead of being made KOS, to me it's like having a price on your head for everyman and his dog to track him down and shoot him if word gets around (which it will seeing as how non ordo members somehow know of the prim copy incident)

[20:45] Aryte Vesperia: Can do.

[20:45] Jester Spearmann: thank you

Next.

14.6.2008 21:45:41 Eques ultrix sum Aryte I'm assuming you want me out of the brotherhood group too, ja?

14.6.2008 21:45:45 Aryte Eques ultrix sum No.

14.6.2008 21:45:55 Eques ultrix sum Aryte No, Sir?

14.6.2008 21:46:02 Aryte Eques ultrix sum No, I don't.

14.6.2008 21:46:38 Eques ultrix sum Aryte TI?

14.6.2008 21:47:21 Aryte Eques ultrix sum No.

His argument: Joe ejected him.

My reply: Yes, again, after you forced my hand and began the rhetoric. Hard pressed to be kind when you write me letters about how I am the devil. You wrote the letter June 20th. You were ejected from Titan well into July.

And his last comment on how I am a liar:

[15:25] You: Ah well. The point of this is . . be aware that he does have a few lasting relations within Ordo who are good, honorable members.

[15:25] You: Jester, for example.

[15:25] Emma Roy: Or maybe he just wasn't thinking at the time he did it..

[15:25] Thunder Rahja: drunk?

[15:25] Kytec Switchblade: (got called out since masses of family are here)

[15:25] You: So please keep an eye on them-- not "spy," but I am concerned they'll be having a rough time.

His argument: Lol. So he is very scared of his own people?

My reply: . . . . Read the last line. "I am concerned they'll be having a rough time." Read the first line. "Good, honorable members." So I am asking the individuals in the log to make sure my good and honorable members whom have lost a significant other/friend are okay after losing them? I'm a bad man?

[Jester Spearmann]

hmm... no accounts of you being the devil, an obvious log saying you didnt make him a praetorian, you obviously didnt care about him as much as you claimed. i still see no '180' nor do i see how he forced you to do anything

again, joh couldnt care less about you but you say such things about him... obviously lies

[Rei Kuhr]

I was one of the first to have to deal with the situation. I've also come to know Johann due to the time I spent in Astra with him. I became a fellow officer with him, a comrade, and even a buddy. But I understand that in my time with him, he's prone to bouts of rhetoric and hyperbole when things do not go the way he likes. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt when I first heard about this and reported it to Aryte. I even admit that I'm probably the one that got this whole thing to the point it reached, through actions that I did that led up to a reprimand. But do I doubt Johann's words that he is innocent?

Sadly, yes. It's using what I know of him that I cannot see him telling the truth. I said it before to Vasilli, and I'll say it here again. "I have never seen Johann build any guns before, so it seems odd that he would somehow learn how to do advanced building in a short period of time." That was my observation. It was not well recieved by Aryte. In fact, I got told that I should be ashamed to rat out a friend for saying what I said. I admit, I probably shouldnt have said it. But was it wrong?

It also shows that Aryte does care muchly about all those in his group. Did Aryte immediately point fingers at Johann and yell 'Copybotter!'. No. He defended Johann right up until the point where it was discovered that Johann did what he did.

The other question is, did Aryte choose on his own to remove Johann from Ordo? No. He turned to the officer corps, and we all threw in our votes. It was not a popular vote. It turned peoples' opinions against each other. It was not an easy decision, but in the end, the decision was made.

So I want to say, Johann. If you want someone to be angry about, someone you want to call a betrayer, point your fingers at me. Because I'm one of the people who decided to send you down this road. I did not do it out of enmity, or pity, I chose my actions because as a group, we have a moral code to uphold. That means anybody who breaks this social contract we have has to suffer the consequences. We all should understand this fact when we sign up. There is no excuse for violating the trust given out by friends.

[Jester Spearmann]

At what point in time did joh do any advanced building ? he made a small gun of 130 prims and used parts given to him by other builders because he couldnt build them

how does that create evidence that he cant build ? hes built almost everything that is at out place and that he wears on his avie. so he managed to build one gun ? oooo so bad.

[Aryte]

Forgive me for thinking gathering up all of my personal conversations with him (those above that are posted being from the notecard that was handed to be, authored by him), distributing them with flashy headers as "DIE LUEGEN!" were intended to demonize my decisions.

Inductions into the Praetorian Guard are my decision. Votes are a formality for the sake of being proper and kind, as the Guard is intended to be a brotherhood within itself. If it is not evident I was /arguing/ for him in the matter, note every negative comment was countered by something I said.

Claiming I didn't "care" about him is very much of an opinion. A slanted one. I've always defended Johann. From Joseph. From Aelus. From Arch. Every altercation, who was standing there speaking on his behalf?

Johann obviously cares, considering every action that's been taken on part has been reactionary to motions he's initiated. "Seekret Guverment Johann Projekt" notecard being the most recent. Nevermind the fact he was trying to join a "secret society" without realizing it was a joke made by Cobalt and Loki. Nevermind the fact he takes every available opportunity to slander me, or send his friends over to slander me.

This matter was over in my book the moment I asked him to bow out to maintain his honor, and that I had no intention to make it any more of a mess than it already was. Persistance and an inclination to twist the matter on their behalf has made it much more gross.

[Jester Spearmann]

So a secret society that he wasnt trying to get into but was invited, then used against him to get him in trouble. awesome.

you asked him to bow out and then left him for nothing after all of your claims of being his friend. and you had meetings and posted stuff on the forums before he even had a second to react. something is rather amiss.

and the names of those notecards sound rather trollish and funny. why else would he spell them that way ?

[Aryte]

To those of you reading this wonderful forum flame war, I do have to extend and apology. Silence is usually the best policy in dealing with slander, but as a month old problem still involves members of our organization, it's become apparent it needs to be addressed.

To Jester specifically, I have no intentions of alienating you here, so I apologize.

[Aryte]

I had nothing to do with the "secret society." They made it as a joke and were standing in Titan talking about it. Johann hopped in and they gave eachother awkward stares as it became a conspiracy against the Ordo's internal network.

I asked him to bow out and gave the matter time to settle. It was not but a week later he was writing letters and displaying an impeccable lack of patience. That's not true. Meetings and forum posts were presented at large in reaction, not opening jabs.

An officer meeting that addressed the fact there were doubts and arguments in regards to Johann actually copying an allies gun is not a public matter.

An at-large meeting to address a petition to break off from the Merczateers, a petition not fathered by Johann and a seperate situation that was signed by Johann has nothing to do with the predicament.

[Devastator Bluebird]

Johann should just come out, say that he was wrong and then just back away and never talk about it again. There is no reason that Aryte should be attacked

[Sera Otoro]

Im sorry, but i cant help but feel i was at fault... it was being done right in front of me, and i was none the wiser... and what made it worse i actually helped him out with it... how stupid am i... really... im sorry aryte but i can only keep feeling ive let you down on this... >_<

[Aryte]

I just want this junk to be over. I've no intentions of hunting down Johann or rounding up people who were involved (knowingly or unknowingly). I'm more than ready to turn the other cheek and call things square. I don't particularly forgive him, nor will I forget, but I can accept them. If he is willing to match that, then we're done and through with this little escapade.

[Jester Spearmann]

Here is the final log that I am posting, and I ask that those of you who are harassing johann to back off please.

[14:32] Aryte Vesperia: (Saved Sat Aug 02 03:29:14 2008) Who is Bedauerter's original account?

[14:32] Aryte Vesperia: (Saved Sat Aug 02 04:43:28 2008) You realize everything you copied over to Johann is now being used in an argument against me?

[14:32] Aryte Vesperia: (Saved Sat Aug 02 04:43:31 2008) Thank you?

[14:34] Jester Spearmann: I'm not sure I understand what argument (I juts woke up so exscuse me for being a little groggy)

[14:35] Aryte Vesperia: I apologize for all of the hubub on the forums.

[14:35] Aryte Vesperia: I don't mean to seem like I am pitchforking you.

[14:35] Jester Spearmann: huh ?

[14:35] Jester Spearmann: I;ve not even checked the forum yet

[14:36] Aryte Vesperia: .

[14:36] Aryte Vesperia: Wait, what?

[14:36] Aryte Vesperia: ..

[14:36] Aryte Vesperia: You haven't been posting on the forums . . ?

[14:37] Jester Spearmann: give me a moment, I just woke up

[14:37] Aryte Vesperia: . . You haven't been on the forums posting to me?

[14:37] Aryte Vesperia: Someone is on your account. On the forums.

[14:37] Aryte Vesperia: Arguing with me.

[14:39] Jester Spearmann: give me a moment im going to change the password

[14:39] Aryte Vesperia: . . Are you serious that isn't you?

[14:40] Jester Spearmann: that was me

[14:40] Aryte Vesperia: Oh, okay. I was going to say.

[14:40] Jester Spearmann: but i'm changing my pass since my fathers been playing around with shit on the computer

[14:42] Aryte Vesperia: But again, I don't mean to seem like I am attacking you.

[14:45] Jester Spearmann: just seems that everyone since you blacklisted johann is either trying to kill him or me

[14:46] Jester Spearmann: for instance, sukasa wasted three clips at UNIT trying to shoot johann in their hub because johann was there looking at the posters sukasa claimed he was parading around as ordo

[14:46] Aryte Vesperia: I can promise you right now if Johann backs down, I will back down and pull anything people are doing hostile to him.

[14:47] Jester Spearmann: does that include trying to shred his hud at every given oppurtunity ?

[14:48] Jester Spearmann: I'm not looking to cause anymore issues as it's kind of spiraled out of control

[14:48] Aryte Vesperia: I really have fun blowing up HUDs. :(

[14:48] Aryte Vesperia: But I can agree to that too.

[14:48] Jester Spearmann: as for beda i dont know his original account

[14:49] Jester Spearmann: exscuse me for a few minutes or so while i finish my breakfast :x

[14:51] Aryte Vesperia: :o K

[14:57] Aryte Vesperia: Well, let me know how it goes.

[15:15] Jester Spearmann: didnt exactly go over too well but i *think* he's going to back down

[15:15] Aryte Vesperia: All right. Well, I need to run. But if it goes either which way, lemme know.

[15:16] Aryte Vesperia is Offline