Tactica Titan Defense Meeting 16JUL10

[Corsi Mousehold]

[17:31] Corsi Mousehold: Well this is al of us. Lets get started. I actually pretyped this \o/

[17:31] Corsi Mousehold: Okay. The short version of all of this is simple. I am going to be compiling a report and putting up a defense report for the Temp Titan build. So far attackers have all said they love the new setup. This is good. However this also means that we can expect more and harder pressing attacks from the TAC among other groups. So over the past couple of days you have had the chance to observe and hopefully participate in the recent attacks on Titan soil. This will be an open discussion to which the log will be posted to the forums as part of the report.

[17:31] Arc Vyper: Do you need someone to log for you?

[17:31] Arc Vyper: or have you got it?

[17:31] Corsi Mousehold: I got it. :)

[17:32] Corsi Mousehold: Personally I am a fan of long range support. So I have been hanging out on the roof firing down on the enemy to keep their heads low and take out medics when needed. My positions have been right on the roof over our spawn door as well as on the high roof where I can see the entire battlefield. It's been helpful since we can lay large amounts of fire down while those in the front are taking out individual targets.

[17:33] Corsi Mousehold: As I said this it going to be more free form open idea discussion so ... Please speak freely.

[17:33] Theodore Belgar: What would be considered the main avenues of OpFor approach? North, south and middle?

[17:34] Corsi Mousehold: So far I have noticed they will push straight west hitting into the lava flow. That forces them more to the north.

[17:34] Arc Vyper: Yeah, CATI did that alot.

[17:35] Exterminatus Footman: We need more cover. Solid cover.

[17:35] Theodore Belgar: 2142 did that as well but a significant potion of them still went straight up the middle.

[17:35] Corsi Mousehold: I noticed 2142/SE2 last night were moving all along the east border for a quick rush.

[17:35] Arc Vyper: Most of us had to go out onto the battlefield. and the red zone is RIGHT outside the base. It limits us when we have to get in their face like that.

[17:35] Corsi Mousehold: Okay so tactically how would you counter for that?

[17:35] Corsi Mousehold: We can't build anything. Keep that in mind.

[17:36] Arc Vyper: (Expand the green zone >_____>)

[17:36] Theodore Belgar: Only problem with going outside the red zone..if you DO go outside it..you'll darn near have a direct shot into their spawn..especially from some areas.

[17:36] Theodore Belgar: or expanding the red zone rather*

[17:36] Arc Vyper: I meant particularly in the west

[17:36] Arc Vyper: where if you run sideways from teh spawn

[17:36] Arc Vyper: your in the base.

[17:36] Arc Vyper: you're*

[17:37] Ron Bleac: We would not have this problem if the simbuild would be a trench system like it was originally meant to be, not Lava Titan from '08.

[17:37] Arc Vyper: That's why most attackers take it, they think they have a better chance of teleporting in their comrades.

[17:37] Exterminatus Footman: We should remove the primmy sandbags, and remove the shield and shield generator, and replace the sandbags with solid, one-two prim cover per section.

[17:38] Exterminatus Footman: We should have done that in the first place.

[17:38] Arc Vyper: Aryte tested the sandbags.

[17:38] Arc Vyper: They work like real life ones.

[17:38] Arc Vyper: Almost.

[17:38] Arc Vyper: Some shots get past, some don't.

[17:38] Exterminatus Footman: It's not a matter of effectiveness. It's so that we can have more prims available for cover elsewhere.

[17:38] Arc Vyper: because of the sculpt.

[17:38] Arc Vyper: you mean the amount of them around base?

[17:38] Theodore Belgar: How many prims is the shield tho? And according to Corsi..it gave us some cover because it disrupted the view from the enemy

[17:38] Exterminatus Footman: Yeah.

[17:38] Arc Vyper: Isn't the shield like

[17:38] Arc Vyper: one-two big megaprims?

[17:38] Exterminatus Footman: The shield should be removed, period. It's aesthetic, and it looks pretty bad.

[17:38] Corsi Mousehold: Well the shield we need to keep for bombing atacks.

[17:39] Exterminatus Footman: I mean regular prims stretched to fit in the sandbag's size.

[17:39] Arc Vyper: The shield has a use

[17:39] Arc Vyper: it makes people think they need to capture the flag.

[17:39] Corsi Mousehold: And they have saved our asses.

[17:39] Exterminatus Footman: The shield is phantom, Corsi.

[17:39] Mercury: New contact: Wesley Paine

[17:39] Corsi Mousehold: Oh I thought you meant the barrier shield.

[17:39] Arc Vyper: He means the cosmetic one

[17:39] Exterminatus Footman: And the primmy, ugly shield generator up top.

[17:39] Corsi Mousehold: Well in that case why not just make the interior of the shield clear.

[17:39] Exterminatus Footman: Which also consumes more script time because of it's sound scripts.

[17:40] Exterminatus Footman: Why do we need an aesthetic feature if it blocks our vision and looks ugly?

[17:40] Arc Vyper: Tbh, Aryte liked it, might have a hard time getting rid of it.

[17:40] Corsi Mousehold: That I can agree with. THe big thing up there is a bit ... meh.

[17:40] Arc Vyper: You could probably talk to him about the random shield generator thing, though.

[17:40] Exterminatus Footman: The big blue bubble is blocking our troop's vision.

[17:40] Exterminatus Footman: That's unacceptable.

[17:40] Exterminatus Footman: It has to go.

[17:40] Theodore Belgar: Its also blocking the attackers vision.

[17:40] Arc Vyper: Well

[17:41] Arc Vyper: you could also ask Vincent

[17:41] Arc Vyper: to make it more transparent

[17:41] Arc Vyper: it's already very transparent as it is

[17:41] Exterminatus Footman: Why have it at all, Arc?

[17:41] Corsi Mousehold: Something we could use is on the top of the roof where the generator is, we need something up there to stand on. Even a tal avvie can't see over the edge fo the base

[17:41] Exterminatus Footman: If we wanted an aesthetic shield, we could have done a lot better.

[17:41] Arc Vyper: A less primmy generator

[17:41] Exterminatus Footman: We don't need a generator at all.

[17:41] Arc Vyper: could be that old satelitte dish

[17:41] Arc Vyper: from snow titan

[17:41] Corsi Mousehold: The bubble looks .. Actually it looks kinda cool. It's a bit cheesy yeah but it's neat.

[17:41] Exterminatus Footman: It does nothing.

[17:42] Arc Vyper: or however you spell

[17:42] Arc Vyper: that word :J

[17:42] Exterminatus Footman: It blocks our vision and impairs our combat performance, Corsi.

[17:42] Corsi Mousehold: And it does serve a purpose.

[17:42] Exterminatus Footman: Which is?

[17:42] Arc Vyper: It blocks their vision, too.

[17:42] Exterminatus Footman: I don't really think that's a reason to keep it.

[17:42] Corsi Mousehold: It obscures the enemies vision to people behind the shield.

[17:42] Arc Vyper: We could simply ask Vincent to make our side more transparent

[17:42] Arc Vyper: so it's easier for us to look

[17:43] Arc Vyper: but not vice-versa

[17:43] Exterminatus Footman: Alpha'd entirely, maybe.

[17:43] Corsi Mousehold: I only died about 7 times last night and every time it was from somone on OUR side of the shield.

[17:43] Theodore Belgar: And the attackers side darker?

[17:43] Corsi Mousehold: It is alpha'd

[17:43] Ron Bleac: The shield, even if it obstructs vision, causes one thing. We can't hit them, they can't hit us. This only means that the enemy has more time to advance without us shooting at them.

[17:43] Arc Vyper: the same as it is

[17:43] Corsi Mousehold: Well you don't want to be totally unfair with it.

[17:43] Corsi Mousehold: We can hit them

[17:43] Exterminatus Footman: So let's just remove it and save ourselves the trouble.

[17:43] Corsi Mousehold: I was killing them regularly.

[17:43] Ron Bleac: I'm no builder, and I have no authority over the shield, but I'm in favor of removing it. But really, it's up to Aryte and Vincent.

[17:44] Arc Vyper: Middle ground can be found, I'm sure.

[17:44] Corsi Mousehold: Turning the interior totally clear. Leaving the exterior as it is.

[17:44] Exterminatus Footman: Arc, the point is, it's consuming resources that are better spent elsewhere.

[17:44] Arc Vyper: Resources?

[17:44] Exterminatus Footman: It's existance is a waste and a detriment to our combat performance.

[17:44] Arc Vyper: It's like 2 prims.

[17:44] Exterminatus Footman: The generator, too.

[17:44] Theodore Belgar: The shield..not the shield generator..how many resources is it taking?

[17:45] Exterminatus Footman: Multiple prims, as well as script time for it's sounds.

[17:45] Theodore Belgar: We could have the shield WITHOUT the generator.

[17:45] Exterminatus Footman: We don't need the shield in the first place.

[17:45] Arc Vyper: It fits the theme, if anyone has noticed

[17:45] Corsi Mousehold: Okay. We're not here to discuss how to build the base. We're here to discuss how to defend what we have.

[17:45] Arc Vyper: that Titan/Chronus were hit by something

[17:45] Theodore Belgar: You're argueing from 2 different fronts...Is it because of the prims/script time being used...or tactical edge it gives/doesnt give us.

[17:46] Exterminatus Footman: If you really want it, here's what we need to do.

[17:46] Arc Vyper: Part of every build has to be cosmetic.

[17:46] Exterminatus Footman: Make it look better, and remove the detriment upon our combat ability.

[17:46] Exterminatus Footman: We can do both easily.

[17:46] Corsi Mousehold: Then the interior made clear or lighter.

[17:46] Corsi Mousehold: Leave the exterior as it is.

[17:47] Theodore Belgar: And eliminate the generator on top?

[17:47] Corsi Mousehold: There is no real need for that to be removed tactically speaking.

[17:47] Arc Vyper: You could ask to have the sounds removed

[17:47] Arc Vyper: if they disturb combat.

[17:47] Corsi Mousehold: True.

[17:47] Arc Vyper: Doesn't disturb me because

[17:48] Arc Vyper: no sound :|

[17:48] Corsi Mousehold: But how many of us are up there to be disturbed.

[17:48] Exterminatus Footman: Eliminate the generator.

[17:48] Exterminatus Footman: Pointless waste of script time and prims.

[17:48] Corsi Mousehold: During the cati defense I didn't even notice it.

[17:48] Theodore Belgar: Because you had a MG going off in your ear?

[17:48] Arc Vyper: I'm sure someone can sculpt a 1 or 2 prim generator

[17:48] Arc Vyper: and pop it there

[17:48] Arc Vyper: with no scripts

[17:49] Exterminatus Footman: Probably, I don't know.

[17:49] Corsi Mousehold: Again we can talk about how to build the sim at the sim builders meeting to take place at 2800 Hrs Yesterday.

[17:49] Corsi Mousehold: :p

[17:49] Mercury: New contact: Numinous Foxdale

[17:49] Arc Vyper: Well, like I was saying

[17:49] Arc Vyper: Red zone should be expanded in the west.

[17:49] Arc Vyper: green*

[17:49] Corsi Mousehold: To where and why?

[17:50] Arc Vyper: Attackers use that route often than none, most if not all of our close-ones with 2142 and CATI were because of the west.

[17:50] Exterminatus Footman: I agree.

[17:50] Arc Vyper: Except that whole

[17:50] Arc Vyper: North cluster-TP event

[17:50] Exterminatus Footman: Red zone should be entirely minimized.

[17:50] Arc Vyper: with 2142

[17:50] Exterminatus Footman: It's bad to have areas where hostiles can camp behind cover.

[17:51] Arc Vyper: It's just a hop and a skip in your on top of our roof.

[17:51] Corsi Mousehold: Well we have that large lava pit there as it is. And the red zone there is pretty thin.

[17:51] Corsi Mousehold: Any thinner and we would be shooting at the spawn.

[17:51] Theodore Belgar: How much farther can we push it out without looking down into their spawn?

[17:51] Arc Vyper: The lava pit can be evaded with a default jump.

[17:52] Corsi Mousehold: So that makes that area more tedious to control.

[17:52] Corsi Mousehold: MG fire from the roof and crossfire from the center can help cover that area.

[17:52] Theodore Belgar: Their pretty much sitting ducks if they try jump packs over the hill.

[17:53] Arc Vyper: They have plenty of cover there. Enemies and hills don't mix. They'll keep popping out and taking potshots at snipers until they can push foward

[17:53] Theodore Belgar: Or flying ducks rather.

[17:53] Corsi Mousehold: Plus they still need to get into the base from there and .. there's no way to get in from the north. Only in the center.

[17:53] Arc Vyper: and since the spawn is nearby

[17:53] Arc Vyper: they won't need to go far to get back.

[17:53] Arc Vyper: There's a gigantic ramp now. It's pretty easy to use all the trimmings keno built on the outpost to get to the center.

[17:53] Ron Bleac: So, what is our current defense plan?

[17:53] Corsi Mousehold: So what can be done to deter an enemy into going north

[17:54] Exterminatus Footman: What enemies do, they sit behind cover, jump up, fire, and fall back behind it immediately.

[17:54] Exterminatus Footman: We can't hit them like that without spraying over it constantly.

[17:54] Corsi Mousehold: They did that in Chronus.

[17:54] Arc Vyper: I personally would like to extand the river of lava. but that would involve building.

[17:54] Theodore Belgar: A cross fire from the top of the base and the north bunker.

[17:54] Exterminatus Footman: We need a solution for that.

[17:54] Corsi Mousehold: North would ahve to watch fire. They'll be shooting over everyone's heads.

[17:55] Theodore Belgar: Especially if we shoot hard south.

[17:55] Arc Vyper: With the common soldier that would mean alot of friendly-fire.

[17:55] Corsi Mousehold: We found out more during the 2142 attack that the north bunker is a key position to hold.

[17:56] Corsi Mousehold: Base defense we can always just run out.

[17:56] Theodore Belgar: With alot of soldiers that'll be friendly fire..Because we all jump up and down alot.

[17:56] Ron Bleac: Would anyone like to hear my personal suggestion on how to defend the current Titan?

[17:56] Arc Vyper: Yes.

[17:56] Theodore Belgar: of course sir

[17:56] Corsi Mousehold: Ron that is why this is open forum discussion.

[17:56] Ron Bleac: Okay. Here's the deal.

[17:57] Ron Bleac: Our defense in the past has always relied on a solid line, and this is no different. The problem right now is that people seem to forget that the positions between the North and the South can also be occupied. That, is our weak point. That is where they will thrust, as seen last night with the 2142 raid. We were barely able to hold them back at the stairs. If we occupy that position, we have plenty of space in front of us with the green zone.

[17:57] Ron Bleac: We can use that space to our advantage.

[17:58] Ron Bleac: 2142, and other TAC armies will utilize latency to advance, they know how to do this perfectly well. With the hills providing plenty of cover, they will be able to move at us under the cover of the lag.

[17:58] Ron Bleac: Once they're close enough, we can do one thing with our forces in the center.

[17:58] Ron Bleac: And that is fix our fucking bayonets, and charge right into the midst of them. Break them in the center, and use the Northern position in the relieved latency to put down fire at whatever stragglers remain.

[17:58] Ron Bleac: The Southern rooftop will be critical to hold, one breach there and they're in our base.

[17:59] Ron Bleac: But experience has shown, they'll go straight for the blue doors.

[17:59] Ron Bleac: They don't care about the flag.

[17:59] Ron Bleac: They want to go for the Gold.

[17:59] Ron Bleac: That is Aryte's office.

[17:59] Ron Bleac: And to hold Aryte's office, the North, South and Center will HAVE to be occupied. All at the same time.

[17:59] Ron Bleac: We're in the same situation as we always were.

[17:59] Ron Bleac: Solid line defense.

[17:59] Corsi Mousehold: Exactly. Enemies are not allowed to breach through the walls. Has to be doors.

[18:00] Ron Bleac: But the best defense, is offense. Remember this.

[18:00] Mercury: Lost contact: Kitten Jenkins

[18:00] Ron Bleac: Don't be afraid to get out there and get your hands dirty, a good me-lee gets the blood flowing.

[18:00] Ron Bleac: Quite literally, even.

[18:00] Exterminatus Footman: We need to be allowed to strike deep into their offensive fronts, then.

[18:00] Exterminatus Footman: Instead of being leashed back and giving them all the room they want to prance around.

[18:00] Theodore Belgar: Thats what the Praetorians did when they crossed over into Chronus.

[18:01] Mercury: New contact: Wolfe Hardin

[18:01] Ron Bleac: That's the thing.

[18:01] Exterminatus Footman: It should be generally allowed.

[18:01] Exterminatus Footman: Not just Praetorians.

[18:01] Exterminatus Footman: OIC discretion.

[18:01] Ron Bleac: It is OIC discretion, already.

[18:01] Ron Bleac: The enemy will push themselves into a pocket in the center, because they want to get up those stairs. Especially in 2142s case, they don't have jetpacks.

[18:01] Ron Bleac: That's a pocket.

[18:01] Ron Bleac: They get in it, close it.

[18:01] Ron Bleac: Smash them.

[18:01] Exterminatus Footman: Alpha squad members should have that discretion, too, for when the OIC is innactive or busy.

[18:01] Exterminatus Footman: It happens a lot.

[18:02] Theodore Belgar: In the west..if we allowed to "strike deep" we'll be shooting into their spawn..which will cause all manner of hell raising.

[18:02] Exterminatus Footman: Simple solution is to modify terrain to cover it a bit more.

[18:02] Corsi Mousehold: Sorry but we should not. What Alpha should have is the use of our specialized gear at all times when needed.

[18:02] Exterminatus Footman: Why not both, Corsi?

[18:03] Corsi Mousehold: Because we have plenty of guards to do it already. And having litterally half of the general defense with the immediate ability to run intot he Red zone .....

[18:03] Corsi Mousehold: is silly.

[18:03] Mercury: Lost contact: Wesley Paine

[18:03] Ron Bleac: I respect everyone's opinion here, but Exterminatus has a point. A guardsman or two can not change the tide. If we are talking about the Praetorian Guard.

[18:04] Ron Bleac: There are only a handful of us, and one or two on base.

[18:04] Ron Bleac: The OIC already has the ability to initiate a charge and retreat order during battle.

[18:04] Ron Bleac: People just forget.

[18:04] Theodore Belgar: Like it was stated then..the OIC should have discretion to send troops in then. But only so far.

[18:04] Arc Vyper: Most don't, because no ones outlined what a "no-no" is officially yet.

[18:05] Exterminatus Footman: My point is that Alpha Squad members generally have the self-discipline to not fire into the hub when doing such things.

[18:05] Corsi Mousehold: The OIC does. To take out Medic spots.

[18:05] Theodore Belgar: Corsi...you said that we're not editing terrain..right?

[18:05] Corsi Mousehold: We do yes.

[18:05] Corsi Mousehold: Correct.

[18:06] Arc Vyper: You would think. But you can't put a blanket approval for all A-squads.

[18:06] Theodore Belgar: ok

[18:06] Exterminatus Footman: So we'd announce, "Two of us are going to take out that medic", and we'd do it.

[18:06] Arc Vyper: Even though most might.

[18:06] Exterminatus Footman: We wouldn't charge everyone up there, we'd just have more flexibility due to the rarity of Guards.

[18:07] Ron Bleac: I'm going to get Auth from Aryte so Tactica can get a Combat essay I wrote on to the private section of the forums.

[18:07] Ron Bleac: It talks about this problem exactly.

[18:07] Jake Stoanes: Sorry I am late, had real life work

[18:07] Ron Bleac: And it's got pretty pictures.

[18:07] Ron Bleac: No worries Jake.

[18:07] Arc Vyper: The High-tech graphics one?

[18:07] Ron Bleac: Not that one.

[18:07] Jake Stoanes: What were we discussing? If you don't mind catching me up

[18:07] Arc Vyper: The early big block of text I didn't bother to read?

[18:07] Arc Vyper: =>

[18:08] Ron Bleac shoots Arc.

[18:08] Jake Stoanes: I know it's in regards to defence

[18:08] Corsi Mousehold: Sorry call me a doomsayer but all I can picture is .... Hey OIC I'\m going to drop pod down to take out this lonewolfer with a melee kthxbye.

[18:09] Arc Vyper: Isn't that

[18:09] Arc Vyper: what Erik did

[18:09] Arc Vyper: lol

[18:09] Jake Stoanes: lol, I know Steel has done that

[18:09] Corsi Mousehold: I rest my case.

[18:09] Jake Stoanes: I wouldn't be suprised if Erik did too

[18:09] Arc Vyper: Invic pretty boys D:

[18:09] Jake Stoanes: It was more like "OIC: May I drop pod down and melee that guy?"

[18:09] Arc Vyper: Yeah, you too Ron.

[18:09] Arc Vyper: :P

[18:09] Jake Stoanes: You have to remember, it was Steel that was asking

[18:09] Jake Stoanes: :P

[18:10] Arc Vyper: Well

[18:10] Ron Bleac: If the OIC decides to drop down on a Lonewolf, then the OIC will do exactly that. If the OIC gives approval for a drop pod strike on a ridiculous target, then that's the OIC's problem and shouldn't be pinned on Invictus.

[18:10] Exterminatus Footman: Corsi

[18:10] Corsi Mousehold: besides. In last nights entire raid we didn't need to Red zone skip even once.

[18:10] Corsi Mousehold: Not even once.

[18:10] Exterminatus Footman: If an individual abuses the privelidge

[18:10] Exterminatus Footman: It could be taken away from him.

[18:11] Exterminatus Footman: The Alpha Squad's leader would be informed if they're abusing it, etc.

[18:11] Corsi Mousehold: Ron. Please do not take offense to what I am about to say.

[18:12] Theodore Belgar: Mind if I rez a pic so we can all have an image of what we're discussing?

[18:12] Corsi Mousehold: When the notice was given that the guard can run into Chronus at will to take out targets of interest, what we had was a large number of complaints from everyone ... including you exterminatus ... about guards just running into Chronus and taking the 'fun' away from everyone else.

[18:13] Exterminatus Footman: I'm discussing allowing more people to have fun in that regard, Corsi.

[18:13] Corsi Mousehold: But not the rest of the Ordo.

[18:13] Exterminatus Footman: How is this condusive to the conversation?

[18:13] Corsi Mousehold: It's too many. That's not going to be a viable solution to correcting the defense.

[18:14] Exterminatus Footman: The simbuild has changed, and so has the context.

[18:14] Jake Stoanes: Personally I believe that, in defence, all of Ordo should be equal. There are a few people that should be allowed, with OIC, or SOG permission to cross into the red zone. BUT I believe that the current Ordo defence lines should be free for anyone to go wherever they want, provided they aren't in the red zone.

[18:14] Exterminatus Footman: Why shouldn.. That's sorta how it is, Jake.

[18:14] Theodore Belgar: Another 20 meters? past those lights on the west and the enemy has effectly no cover.

[18:15] Jake Stoanes: Yeah, that's what i'm saying ti should stay at though.

[18:15] Jake Stoanes: it*

[18:15] Ron Bleac: If there's a legitimate problem that is getting worse in the redzone, the Guard will eliminate it. If someone's going to complain about it, then they need to grow a pair and get with the programmme. I understand if it's a Guardsman running into the redzone to me-lee a single lonewolf without any particular reason. But if there's a legitimate problem in the redzone that NEEDS to be eliminated, the Guard will do so. I hate to say this, and this is not the place to discuss it, but the Guard is not here to be equal. We are a force multiplier, and meant to be overpowered in regards to what one can do and what one can not do. We are not a puppydog on a leash. We're a bulldog with rabies.

[18:16] Ron Bleac: In regards to people going into the redzone.

[18:16] Ron Bleac: The OIC is the God of Thunder on the battlefield.

[18:16] Ron Bleac: He can do what he wants within the regulations provided in our handbook.

[18:16] Ron Bleac: Eliminating enemy hardpoints, and medic points, is part of that.

[18:16] Corsi Mousehold: Thank you Ron.

[18:16] Jake Stoanes: I agree with Ron.

[18:16] Ron Bleac: The OIC -already- has the authority to launch whatever attacks he wants to into the Redzone.

[18:16] Ron Bleac: If he wants us to linedance in front of the HUB, then we linedance.

[18:16] Exterminatus Footman: Couldn't the same statement, on a smaller scale, be applied to Alpha Squads, Ron?

[18:17] Ron Bleac: The Alpha squads are specialized squads with specialized equipment created for special circumstances. They are more prepared than the regular Ordo trooper to face any and all situations on the battlefield. The OIC, can at his discretion, send an online and prepared Alpha squad into the redzone if the situation requires it.

[18:17] Corsi Mousehold: I have a compromise idea. That if the need arises to send someone into the Red zone and there is not a guard present ... An ALpha squad member be the one to do it.

[18:18] Exterminatus Footman: That's fine.

[18:18] Ron Bleac: Yes. It's perfectly feasible, and if an Alpha isn't there, send in regulars.

[18:18] Jake Stoanes: I believe that alpha squads only hold sway in their specialities. For example, antisig, would be first to pull out tanks when defending. If an alpha squad is not specialized in defensive matters, then I don't believe they should get special privileges.

[18:18] Arc Vyper: Anti trains in regular combat as well.

[18:18] Ron Bleac: Well, all of our Alpha squads can defend.

[18:18] Ron Bleac: Anyone can defend.

[18:18] Jake Stoanes: They can all defend, yes.

[18:19] Ron Bleac: So unless we want to have unarmed Tactica proctors on the battlefield, then..

[18:19] Jake Stoanes: But they shouldn't get special treatment over a normal guardsmen

[18:19] Exterminatus Footman: Jake, the point is that, Alpha Squad members are held to a higher standard and are given the responsibility of handling heavier specialized weaponry without abusing it.

[18:19] Corsi Mousehold: Yes. Ante trains in long range support. We're the ones on the roof taking out people at range or just simply keeping people's heads down.

[18:19] Ron Bleac: Yeah.

[18:20] Corsi Mousehold pets her Negev.

[18:20] Ron Bleac: The difference between the Guard and the Alpha squads is this: The Alpha squads are trained in their own specialty, and are trained to use the weaponry they're provided with care and precision to eliminate the enemy in their own special circumstance. The Guard, on the other hand, has access to all equipment and are trained to abuse them.

[18:20] Ron Bleac: I'm just kidding on the abuse part.

[18:20] Ron Bleac: MOVING ON

[18:20] Jake Stoanes: lol

[18:21] Corsi Mousehold: Lets recap a moment.

[18:22] Corsi Mousehold: Collect our thoughts so to speak. We have established the north bunker is going to be good to hold. It can pull troops back out to the front lines fast near the flag and for fire to those advancing. The south ia weak.

[18:22] Corsi Mousehold: We have established that to correct this, support fire from the roof is needed.

[18:22] Arc Vyper: That war was over a while ago, Corsi.

[18:22] Arc Vyper: oh.

[18:22] Arc Vyper: Nevermind.

[18:23] Corsi Mousehold: And the ranm in the south be held fast.

[18:23] Corsi Mousehold: ramp*

[18:23] Corsi Mousehold: Center can be replenished by simply running out of the base.

[18:23] Corsi Mousehold: So where would be good med points.

[18:23] Arc Vyper: I've noticed a lot of people use the North bunkers

[18:24] Arc Vyper: Which works well for people who have jetpacks.

[18:24] Corsi Mousehold: Aye. North bunker has a good view over the battlefield.

[18:24] Theodore Belgar: Last night there were generally 3-4 of us on the north bunker.

[18:24] Jake Stoanes: I'd say good med points would be on the south, and north, if we have two med points. Easiest would be a med point in the center. There's enough cover there, and makes it easier for medics to teleport everyone for easy deployment

[18:24] Jake Stoanes: In the north there's the ditch behind the bunker that the medic can hide behind

[18:24] Jake Stoanes: and in the south, there's cover either up on the roof, or near the tiberium

[18:24] Corsi Mousehold: North id bunker obviously. But if we had a ded-med, where would you put the southern one?

[18:25] Jake Stoanes: though the tiberium can be counted as center

[18:25] Mercury: New contact: Vilkacis Mason

[18:25] Corsi Mousehold: You think southern roof?

[18:25] Arc Vyper: Medics should announce themselves as so, too.

[18:25] Jake Stoanes: honestly though, if I had a medic on the far south, i'd toss them up behind the shield generator thing

[18:25] Arc Vyper: So people know who to help not get shot.

[18:25] Corsi Mousehold: Indeed.

[18:25] Arc Vyper: That's when the enemy pushes

[18:25] Jake Stoanes: They have good cover, and can still shoot

[18:25] Arc Vyper: when our medic dies :c

[18:25] Jake Stoanes: also, if you get teleported onto the roof, you don't need to jump up, which makes you vulnerable

[18:26] Theodore Belgar: Another thing that would help is calling out specific medic tp's..Not just spamming with a gesture.

[18:27] Exterminatus Footman: Theodore, you can move the minimap. Gestures make it so much easier on our medics.

[18:27] Theodore Belgar: Via IM's preferably so you dont clog Vent.

[18:27] Corsi Mousehold: Medics on Vertical life and Combat Cubed can be IM'd with just TP and the medic can pull them forward.

[18:27] Jake Stoanes: Yeah, gestures make life a lot easier

[18:27] Arc Vyper: That's not effecient if everyones in teh thick of it.

[18:27] Arc Vyper: I'd rather have stacked TP's ready then have to wait for one.

[18:27] Corsi Mousehold: You're not allowed to do that Arc

[18:27] Theodore Belgar: Not when you have to spam the gesture..and what if it results in delayed or stale TP's?

[18:27] Arc Vyper: I mean from someone

[18:27] Arc Vyper: still alive

[18:27] Arc Vyper: >_>

[18:28] Exterminatus Footman: Just wait for the latest one, Theo.

[18:28] Theodore Belgar: I'm not saying to IM the medic everytime..but if it doesnt come quickly or if you're not on someone's gesture.

[18:29] Jake Stoanes: You know what might work well?

[18:29] Jake Stoanes: Having people with designated defence locations

[18:29] Jake Stoanes: For example, I always defend south

[18:29] Jake Stoanes: while... Ron always defends north

[18:29] Ron Bleac: .. the idea of battlestations is actually pretty chill.

[18:29] Corsi Mousehold: I love the roof.

[18:29] Ron Bleac: But then we'd have people not moving when it's needed.

[18:29] Jake Stoanes: This way, the medics can make specific teleport gestures

[18:30] Corsi Mousehold: It's fun for me.

[18:30] Jake Stoanes: for example, north medic teleport, would have Ron, but not me

[18:30] Corsi Mousehold: In the last build I was always in the bunker.

[18:30] Jake Stoanes: it would basically make it so that a new gesture doesn't have to be made for every battle

[18:30] Arc Vyper: If the south defense were to fall, the north would have to cover.

[18:30] Arc Vyper: OICs try that

[18:30] Jake Stoanes: at the same time though, it would mean spamming people that might not be on base, but are online.

[18:30] Arc Vyper: and then it ends up being chaotic

[18:30] Arc Vyper: because everyones trying to fill gaps

[18:31] Theodore Belgar: SL battle is too fluid to have designated hardpoints imo

[18:31] Arc Vyper: Need to go eat.

[18:31] Jake Stoanes: I guess what i'm suggesting isn't so much specific battle stations, so much as designated medics

[18:31] Arc Vyper: and agree with Theodore.

[18:31] Jake Stoanes: and so long as the medic stands, the area can be defended.

[18:32] Corsi Mousehold: That's what we are talking about.

[18:32] Jake Stoanes: if the medic on the roof of south is alive, then all the people in their gesture should be defending south

[18:32] Corsi Mousehold: Where would a designated medic be put in the south?

[18:32] Jake Stoanes: if north falls, the people that should be defending north should be defending north

[18:32] Jake Stoanes: or pushing to regain it

[18:32] Corsi Mousehold: Top of the roof?

[18:32] Jake Stoanes: that's what i'm thinking COrsi

[18:32] Jake Stoanes: Corsi*

[18:33] Jake Stoanes: for several reasons. 1) better cover, 2) people that get tp'd in don't have to jump up to the roof. you're less vulnerable when falling, ironically enough.

[18:33] Jake Stoanes: and 3) most people are on the roof on tthe south anyway

[18:33] Jake Stoanes: the*

[18:34] Corsi Mousehold: Then that works.

[18:34] Jake Stoanes: I would say though that the person on the roof NEEDS to keep their head down

[18:34] Jake Stoanes: Once they're uprooted, it's not going to be the easiest to get back up there

[18:35] Mercury: New contact: Genostrike Sautereau

[18:35] Jake Stoanes: I would say behind the satelite thing would work

[18:35] Corsi Mousehold: If there are no jetpackers they can stand close to the edge. If there are jetpackers I would have them be behind the generator for the extra cover.

[18:35] Jake Stoanes: but, at the same time, they wouldn't have much ability to shoot anyway

[18:36] Corsi Mousehold: And thus we just found a tactical reason for the generator.

[18:36] Jake Stoanes: yep

[18:36] Theodore Belgar: I'm sure we could put something up there that would provide cover that wasnt so primy tho'

[18:36] Jake Stoanes: there's definately great cover up there

[18:36] Jake Stoanes: but it really sacrifices the ability to shoot back

[18:38] Corsi Mousehold: If I can't run out from behind a satelite dish and shoot some SOAB trying to get to my medic I need to be slapped.

[18:38] Jake Stoanes: lol

[18:38] Jake Stoanes: there's no doubt that the medic will be well covered there

[18:38] Jake Stoanes: and when someone gets close, they should be able to get them easy

[18:39] Mercury: New contact: Detox Exonar

[18:39] Jake Stoanes: i'm just saying that their primary function would be staying in cover and medicing, rather than popping shots and medicing

[18:39] Jake Stoanes: because they really wouldn't be able to hit much from up there

[18:39] Theodore Belgar: If the medic is being effective...there should be plenty of guns up there to take care of anyone getting close.

[18:39] Jake Stoanes: We'll just put Drasamax up there with her lawn chair

[18:39] Exterminatus Footman: Yeah.

[18:39] Jake Stoanes: lol

[18:40] Jake Stoanes: But, what i'm triyng to suggest is that it should be stressed that they don't try to run around to take shots at people

[18:41] Theodore Belgar: This board is currently offline.

[18:42] Corsi Mousehold: Okay well we have been at this for well over an hour and we have alot accomplished!

[18:42] Corsi Mousehold: I will get ze massive log and post it to the forums.

[18:42] Jake Stoanes: lol

[18:42] Theodore Belgar: fun fun

[18:42] Jake Stoanes: If I could suggest something though before we move on

[18:43] Jake Stoanes: Regarding medic points

[18:43] Theodore Belgar: Will you leave the part out where I called Jack a massive dill week?

[18:43] Theodore Belgar: weed*

[18:43] Jake Stoanes: I think we should put something on the ground

[18:43] Jake Stoanes: roughly where we want the medic to be

[18:43] Jake Stoanes: at the start

[18:43] Theodore Belgar: nevermind..i cant spell anyway

[18:43] Corsi Mousehold: ANd have it say PILLS HERE

[18:43] Jake Stoanes: just kind of a "medic should be here"

[18:43] Jake Stoanes: or that, Corsi

[18:43] Jake Stoanes: lol

[18:44] Jake Stoanes: I just think that it would help a bit if we pointed out more specifically where we want them

[18:44] Jake Stoanes: rather than "somewhere over there"

[18:44] Jake Stoanes: I mean saying "up on the roof" is pretty vague if you think about it