Patton in North Africa

[Phares Sarjeant]

Not sure why it's called Rommel's last stand, but the extra details of the actual flow of battle i thought were interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSm5YnE6WHw&feature=related

[Krow Ames]

I like Patton. He took care of his men.

I just want everyone to know he was nuts.

Oh, and the name might have something to do with Rommel being the commander of the North African forces for Germany, which is where he picked up the nickname "Desert Fox." (I didn't watch the video)

[Phares Sarjeant]

Oh, and the name might have something to do with Rommel being the commander of the North African forces for Germany, which is where he picked up the nickname "Desert Fox." (I didn't watch the video)

Rommel's last stand would technically be the European Theater, where he was responsible for setting up the defenses prior to D-day. Apparently it was his plan that was also used in the Battle of the Bulge breakout(although by this time he was dead from suicide due to the link of his connection to the assassination attempt on Hitler) So he would still be a very influential commander after this. Much to Patton's dismay Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery got to attack Rommel's command rather than he in Europe.. the blankety blank brits.

But before making the North African operation too much about Patton, Montgomery pushed Rommel from Egypt all the way to Tunisia. (odd that we've just had another military operation in Libya in the Last 2 years) Brit casualties** in NA were around 220,000. About 18,500 Americans were casualties.

Due to the allied control of the Mediterranean, Hitler was forced to leave 250,000 veteran German soldiers. All in all around 620,000 Italian and German troops were lost in the North African Campaign.

**casualties includes dead, wounded, and prisoners of war.

[Krow Ames]

The Americans didn't have a whole lot to do in North Africa. The only reason Patton was sent in there was to make the Germans think we were going to make an invasion of Fortress Europe through Italy. We did perform Operation Husky, but it wasn't on the scale that was expected.

Rommel did make a last stand in North Africa when the British forces pushed his Afrika Corps against a wall of American soldiers. He escaped in a plane at the last possible moment.

I have a lot of respect for the British forces who fought in North Africa. With very low numbers, they mounted attacks against Rommel and made him retreat across the continent into the American forces. It would have taken way longer to dig Rommel out of North Africa without daring British soldiers.

[Phares Sarjeant]

The Americans didn't have a whole lot to do in North Africa. The only reason Patton was sent in there was to make the Germans think we were going to make an invasion of Fortress Europe through Italy. We did perform Operation Husky, but it wasn't on the scale that was expected.

Aye, no problem there, simply hermeneutics emphasizing LAST stand vs. Last stand in North Africa.

Not to disagree but merely to expand a little on your words. Feel free to zone out as the drone continues. haha

Understanding why the Allies started in N. Africa would require a little more indepth detailing of the politics of the day. Churchill wanted to go from N. Africa up through the balkans as was tried in WWI. A good plan but got bogged down on the beaches. Whereas the Americans ie. Marshall were for a much more direct approach going directly from the British Isle into Europe.

As it worked out the Allies in clearing N. Africa succeeded in maintaining their oil resources and denying them to Hitler.

After N. Africa and Sicily -Patton was sent up to tour Palestine and the Balkans and as you pointed out was a point of subterfuge to re-direct some of the German resources while the allies began plans for the invasion of Normandy.. Patton was again the core of a later false army group in Britain that re-directed at least 2 divisions of German troops away from the D-day landing.

No doubt about the British courage, daring, and analytical skills. I just hate them and furries. ;P Due more to envy of their analytical skills than anything else.. well not furries because of their analytical skils but the brits. Furries i just hate cuz of all the hairballs. (nevermind that the other RP i do in SL is primarily british based; and there's furries there too. Haha) Ok really i just hate furries because it's fun to be a minority furryist in a sim ful of furries run by our fearless furry Imperator and dominated by mercury who's out to kill all non-furries.

Rommel did make a last stand in North Africa when the British forces pushed his Afrika Corps against a wall of American soldiers. He escaped in a plane at the last possible moment.

Imo Rommel didn't so much as escape in a plane as Hitler left the other 250,000 soldiers there to their fate. We probably don't realize how incredible the undertaking was that the US was able to sustain building a Naval force on one front with the Japanese, while aiding the British, and supplying the Russians on the other front. I presume the British have always had a dominating navy due to the form of the British Empire. In comparison Germany was unable to build enough transports or at least utilize the ones they had in the Mediterranean in spite of being a great deal closer than the US and Great Britain to North Africa.

Another thing we learn from this also is never to underestimate an indirect approach in Battle. If Hitler would've captured the oil in the Middle East, it would have crippled the Uk's ability to manufacture and transport materiale. In History all great leaders are able to understand the weakness of a situation and push an enemy off balance. In the same way due to Germany's lack of logistics they failed in saving 250,000 of their veteran soldiers. This also happened on the Eastern front with Russia when it was assumed that victory would be achieved by winter.. and their equipment /clothing was not fit for the climate. Both times it was an indirect factor that gave the Germans massive losses.

In sl it is often indirect factors that can play a role in defeating us more so than direct ones. Issues such as recruiting, training, activity, up to date weapons, personality differences, falling out with the sims we have to battle with.. etc. etc.. but i digress and these factors are all well-known by those much more experienced and determined to prevent them.

I have a lot of respect for the British forces who fought in North Africa. With very low numbers, they mounted attacks against Rommel and made him retreat across the continent into the American forces. It would have taken way longer to dig Rommel out of North Africa without daring British soldiers.

Aye. Crack on bro. ;~} And one of our true allies in the World as long as political administrations don't screw things up...

[Ron Bleac]

Rommel committed several campaign level errors during the war in North Africa. But they're not exactly errors that he is to be faulted for. Rommel had tanks, but his issue was his inability to replace said tanks because of Hitler's unwillingness to focus on the North African campaign instead of sending all war material to the Eastern front. To give an example, when Rommel assaulted the city of Tobruk the initial attack was a success and his troops achieved breakthroughs front-wide. It was his inability to replace his mounting casualties that forced him to retreat and the British were able to exploit this weakness. Prior to the retreat phase, Rommel had pushed the Allies back in an astonishing offensive across entire deserts, without losing a single battle. Out of all the generals in North Africa, or the world at the time, Rommel was the most respected and feared. But Patton didn't fear the man. Not because he knew he could defeat Rommel, but because he knew he had numerical and logistical superiority. He could outlast Rommel in all scenarios because when push came to shove, he knew Rommel couldn't replenish his dwindling force of tanks, men or limited supplies. If the roles were reversed, Patton and the British would have surely lost North Africa.

Don't forget, Rommel had already been at war for four years. In France, he commanded the feared 7th Panzer, or "Ghost Division," which the Germans themselves couldn't keep track of because of how fast he was moving. The 7th Panzers still hold the world record of most territory covered in a day. If Rommel would have been provided the reinforcements he so direly needed, it's not a question of if he would've been able to turn the tide - he would've turned the tide.

[Phares Sarjeant]

yah brits.. they can't help themselves. It's NOT THEIR FAULT FOLKS.. It all started with their parents. Their parents were analyzing the sundry items of life and never quite finished soooo the offspring took up the torch for critical review and as the next generation came along the context of the situation had changed ever so slightly causing this analytical complexi to transmogrify into a swirling generational cycle of ever increasing analytical complexity.....and so we have for your perusing pleasure exhibit A!! ^^^^ Mr. Bleac.. my hate sir..

My ancestry is only about 1/3 or 1/4 british. Hence the Cyclus Analyticus Complexicus is somewhat watered down...

[Ron Bleac]

I'm not British.

[George Reisman]

pip pip cheerio

[Phares Sarjeant]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEmctE8u2io