Reinhardt

The CDF mechs have more armor than our tanks (they have 3 modles of mech, distinctive by color, and I beleive one MIGHT be damage throttled, but for all of them AT weapons are ineffective, the best way to damage them is spamming them with bullets), they are all equiped with move enhancers.. they can all fly at will DESPITE the sim havinga no jetpack rule. they can capture points despite being armored. they are allowed into their tunnels, despite htem throwing fits whenever we get an Aegis into those tunnels. given that the mechs are broken out the MOMENT they see something that isnt infantry, OR the moment you take the 3rd point.. and you realize that you are going to face these thigns NO MATTER WHAT. and thats just their mechs. Thats NOT getting into their turrets.. which can be deployed anywhere instantly, have 150 health, and they can hop up and then reset for a full and instant repair... while having a machine gun rate of fire and infinite ammo. so yes.. a CDF raid REQUIRES overkill within their rules. Becuase their default is overkill BREAKING their rules. If we go in with anything less, we might as well not go.

Ah sod off. I've always sucked when it comes to lose and loose. LOL. But you are assuming that we actualy engage in the practices you have outlined. Which is untrue. Solitary and rare individuals do yes. I will admit that. BUT that is an individual issue, and should be processed individualy. your original post though, targeted Ordo procedure as a whole, and Ordo procedure IS what you are arguing on behalf of. a raid comes to Titan, 5 people.. they bust out a single grenade launcher.. we do NOT immediatel ybump to medium weapons. we maintain light so long as we are maintaining the line. We bump to medium when they either ALL upgrade to grenade launchers, when they are breaking through the lines, OR when their grenade launchers prove to be "spam launchers" and our escelation is to counter. I've seen auth downgraded back to light, more often than I've seen auth bumped to heavy, when on defensive raids. Infact the ONLY times defensively, I've seen heavy or vehicles authorized, is durring training. And that is since I joined in the beginnign of August.

Why play a game, if you arent aiming to win as a secondary goal? Military endeavours you have winnign as a primary goal. Sports and gaming, it is secondary. With fun as first. SO why would we allow loosing to become a goal at all? Keep fun as our primary goal. Like we do. Keep winning as a secondary goal. Like we do. This translates to.."it aint broke. so dont fix it"

Marc.. first point.. we use numbers when attacking groups like Chaos.. becuase their griefy weaponry means numbers are ALL we have agianst them. When you get down to it, Chaos prove that numbers are not enough to GUARANTEE a win, as many times, their griefy weaponry prevents us from taking more than one point. Second, rarely do we send out a raid where we are not out numbered by defenders or reinforcements they call in. Period. Third.. again.. to tactical advantages. Why would we not try and have a tactical advantage so long as it is within the rules? Are we TRYING to lose but not be obvious? Sure hten we can keep our numbers less than the enemy. BUT if we are trying to win, which in any game, should be your secondary goal (primary goal being fun), then we need to ensure we have the means to overcome any potential thing they throw at us. In terms of military combat, sports, or even gaming in general, this is just smart play. I see you counting our 15 defenders the same as outsiders do, and not as we do. 15 defenders, each assigned to 1 of 3 areas. Meaning an enemy attack will only face 5 defenders at a time IF we're lucky. BUT this is an advantage we have given attackers in our sim design. IF we had designed our sim with one path of attack, then yes, they would be facing 15 defenders and it would be what people claim. BUT no, our sim design is set up to favor the attackers, spreading our defenses out thin, while allowing the enemy to focus on one area of attack. Why do we win, when our defenses are spread thin like this even if the enemy focuses on one area? Simple. Our training and our tactics. We have mastered the elastic defense... as those 5 defenders in one area are whittled down by the sustained attack on them, they fall back, giving the opponent ground. Meanwhile those who died there, are brought back, and reinforcements come from other areas to now flank the attackers moving through our territory. Again, this is smart tactics in military endeavours, in sports, and in games where hte secondary objective is to win. If we begin dictating "oh we have X people for defense, no one else can defend" we will see Ordo membership begin to dwindle, becuase people will have nothing to do. Are our members to be penalized becuase Ordo is larger than any other military? No. Other sims, when the sim comes under attack, everyone there defends. We have the same reality. This is fair for all. Ordo, and its members, should not be penalized with defense caps, becuase we have been successful enough to outnumber any militaries. But why do we out number them? Is it just our success? No. They suffer from "too many chiefs, not enough indians" syndrome. By making SO many small groups rather than fewer larger groups, they have spread their numbers thin, meaning they will never match our numbers. But becuase of this, they complain when attacking us, that we dont lower ourselves to their level. In numbers and often behaviour. THAT said.. I do agree.. we need to STOP idling on Titan. People need to get the hell off Titan if they are idling, or focused on paperwork. We need to make it so that everyone, attackers and defenders, can have a clear indication of how many people are available for defense. Too often, we have people asking "okay who is alive for defense?" becuase so many peopel were idling we couldnt tell. As for your comments on attitude.. I'd recomend taking ART. As I recomend it to all of Ordo. The ART courses may seem to focus on communication, coordination, and escelation... BUT those then begin to affect other aspects of you, most importantly is attitude about combat and opponents.

I would say... rather than saying a party with 2142 or with AN.. why not turn damage off for it, PREHAPS even turn off rezzing at all for non Ordo, and make it an open invite party?

I throw my vote in for a halloween party. Maybe a day, maybe two, open sim, no combat. Free atire days in the spirit of allowing costumes. Hell.. I'll even put on my furry outfit. A werewolf.

As for the question of our sim... we do have a home field advantage, more than any other group seems to have in their sim. We train harder, and more than most is my only reasonable explaination. That said.. yes it is clear why people are reluctant to fight us en masse, which is theri greatest hope for victory. But prehaps this is also becuase of "sim balance". I'm not saying hte sim IS, or ISNT balanced. But everyone has pros and cons for any and every potential sim design, and I think the quest to build a perfectly balanced combat sim will never really end.

As someone who averages five offensive raids a week roughly (minium is 3, maximum is 10 so far), and 2 doccumented (meaning 3 or more persons) defensive raid with uncounted undoccumented defensive raids (for lonewolfers OR defense reports simply forgotten about by the OIC) I can tell you that the point of the original post is NOT the actual attitude at the front lines. Prehaps it DOES appear that way externaly. But hte reality isnt true at all. I am on more offensive raids that FAIL to achieve all victory goals than a sim has, than raids where we do achieve everything. But we chose to declare a victory becuase our opponents chose to counter us with overwhelming and unreasonable force that we refuse to match. Which counts, according to doccumentation I've read, as grounds for us declaring victory. I see sims we attack where we are stuck to light or medium weapons, heavy at most, becuase if we pull out a single vehicle (even unarmored ones), a single Aegis, or hell, we begin advancing on their base, they pull out pretty much invincible, unlimited ammo, flight enabled armored mechs. As I said.. this is our NORM. I have yet to be on a raid where we have pulled out firepower that overwhelmed the opponent by sheer scripted power. On the front lines in defenses, well it happens most often that automatic explosive weapons in enemy hands, is where most OICs begin debating an escelation to medium weapons. MOST keep us light if enemy numbers are slim in comparison to Ordo numbers. If the enemy is overwhelming a position of ours BUT using weapons we define as light, my experience on the front lines, is that we remain light. we just rebalance our forces. From my experience.. on offensive and defensive raids... our escelation of force is done more for balance of effect, rather than a balance of firepower or size of sticks. The topic of the original post, while well worded and thought out, seems more based on public opinion of Ordo, rather than any sort of Ordo reality.

Having been on SL so long.. I see nothing in my usual communities except drama, stagnation, decay, and a slow withering death. When I found Ordo.. and what I still see and more importantly feel and experience every day... ...is activity. Ordo ALONE is more active than any community I've ever been part of on SL. ...is a drama-free existence. We may have drama from third party groups, BUT we know to deal and cope with it. Internally, we have little public and earth-shattering drama that we dont process in a manner as effecient and effective as we process the third party caused drama. ...is a real, properly organized, smoothly functioning military. I should have enlisted in RL, and did try. Declined becuase of a childhood illness. SO this is the closest I will ever get to the very thing all aptitude tests had as 9 out of 10 results for me; enlisted in the military. ...is professionalism and a sense of maturity. There are people I am not particularly inclined to call friends.. just as I am sure I am that in turn for some people within Ordo. BUT we know how to work together, keeping those sentiments set aside, doing our jobs for the Ordo FIRST. ...is a group and community that really is here to provide a fun experience for us, while asking for a VERY easily attainable minimum. Ordo is fun period. Be it raids, defenses, even training others or recieving training myself is fun for me. And then we get into the outside SL games alot of Ordo play together. And what does Ordo ask of me? I answer calls for defense, I achieve a minimum raid requirement (which I try and surpass to meet my own set minimum requirement), I be available to train people whenever requested/needed (the trick is getting them online half the time. too many Schola cadets have just vanished) ...is growth and development. Whenever I have gone into a community in the past, I saw things that needed imporovement, needed growth. This forced me to step up, offer to help, volunteer to do the work necessary. Most communities I have been with accepted this. And turned me into a workhorse. I would overwork, spending all my time working on rules, regulations, builds, setting info, etc. Infact it literaly would be all my time without any counter balances. And I would burn out, grow to have a distaste for that community, and leave. And then soon after, the community fails, and all I did was lost anyways. Ordo is the first place.. where I dont see anywhere I can really offer my help that someone more experienced/skilled isnt already helping. Ordo is a boat where my paddle is just keeping us moving, I don't have to carve the river itself for once. And it feels good. ...Ordo is my newfound family. Plain and simple. There are some I am less than fond of. But they are family. There are some I adore. And they are family. There are some I spend alot of time with, and they are family. And there are some I rarely see. But they are family. Becuase I have their back. They have mine. Even the ones I meet for the first time, I know we stand together. We live together. We die together (in a more proverbial sense). We grow together, and we will stagnate together. We are Legion. The family of the Ordo. And no I've never really thought of why I love Ordo. These are just a few reasons off the top of my head. BUT I do love Ordo. I would step up and put myself on the line for Ordo.. if it were ever needed of me. I would rise to the call, if one were issued for me, in any way needed. And I do. Every day. I am Ordo for life. Even when Ordo ceases to exist many many years from now. The ideals, the bonds, and the things I have learned here, have already reshaped me in ways that cannot be undone. And I never want them to be.

Well actualy, he said to stop harassing peopel who do or don't like it. So he DID say its a two way street, just people dont seem to be reading what he said, that way. It was others who made it seem like the only point that cannot be voiced, is a viewpoint against the show.

But here's question.. why does the show need to be mentioned at all? if we cant voice our dislike of the show, why does someones like of the show need to be voiced? Isnt this a 2 way street where what is good for one perspective, is good for all perspectives? Now that said.. I've never seen the show. I dont watch tv. And its not on any of the stations my son watches. So no opinion either way on it.

See... I'd never be hte kind to LIVE warhammer.. but I'm fond of hte artistry and esthetics of it... so would make it my SL.

So.. technology to enhance human performance.. Rather than technology to REPLACE human performance... if only the real world thought like this.... LOL

sorry wait I was wrong. its just "eeethree" no dot. the dot at that location is in my email address. too many usernames to remember. lol

I think I'm level 32.. add me. eee.three and yes there is a dot in there.

Agares, that would be useful for a table top army.. but for the video game.. the paint jobs are MUCH simpler. You get a base color.. The armor itself. you get detail color... Trims and highlights. and you get pattern color.... the raised details you see on more vetern/command armors. So teh site you posted is far more complex... and sexy overall.. than the game allows. I must now play with that site..

Our praetorians need power armor.... since the Aegis looks more like terminator armor.

To say you never win if Stalin is your leader leads into a political debate.. as individuals never win yes. BUT the ideals of his regime were that each person was part of the greater whole, and no single persons influence could be allowed to threaten the whole.... and the whole endured long after the individuals (in many cases). So you won... if you were part of the whole and fighting for the whole. But if you were in it for yourself as an indvidual, you could never win, I concur.

living on the 15th floor... definately makes this a situation I could never expeirence.... living in an area that is filled with 100m deep valleys, means even if it did flood, nowhere would feel it except the beachfronts. Before this year.. I would have said I'd like to live on the outskirts of an area affected by floods.. to see the awsome power of nature in its passive ways... the rising rivers.... BUT this year... with all the floods out west... the floods in Quebec.. the floods down south..and now new york.. even I have to cringe.

Hunter.. I thought for the silver/grey left arm.. the armor had to be black, with gold desgins/trim.... and was for the deathwatch? Arent those the relic shoulders? damn you. I need those still. and Shizz.. scarrier than a pair of tac marines doing buddy system... is a pair of heavy weapons working in a battle buddy team. specificly heavy bolters.. or as I call them.. mobile turrets. that... is ALMSOT enough dakka for me... but not quite

^ correct < alien v in need of a 'hug'

I tried to find a good blue to fit with teh Ordo's three colors.. and frankly it just wasnt working.. not from the Gamesworkshop color options. Especialy since you couldnt paint piece by piece. Then any of the whites on a black began to really stand out too much/be too reminiscent of Black Templars. chaos black base... boltgun grey designs, with mithril silver pattern I am still partial to untill someone posts something that just screams Ordo. It looks better as you get relic armor, thats for damn sure. And you dont really join a chapter. Its just modifying hte appearance, so we all look like a chapter if/when we get into a game together on the same team. Imagine how imposing it would be to the 12 year olds on the chaos side.. when a group of 8 marines in identicle custom armor lay the smackdown on them.

well chapters.. if they have hte full 1000 man compliment.. can have a few librarians. And thats if the chapter is Codex compliant. Chapters like the Dark Angels and Space Wolves have very different structures, so could have more, or less, than other Codex chapters. And Nao Krow.. you have me considering going to figure out a good color scheme RIGHT NOW... but I will wait till.. ah Ffff if I dont do it right now... I'll be thinking about it all night. will post when I come up with a design. Reins Ordo Armor submission... Primary color - cool colors - chaos black. Detail color - metalic colors - boltgun metal Pattern color -metalic colors - mithril silver Black Templar logo in white I had been considering differnt colors for detail.. and dont yet have anything on marines to use pattern. Also the color scheme works for chaos too, for when we get stuck playing as that because as yet.. the game hasnt let me pick which side I play in multiplayer.

I didnt have to install an Emperors Elite pack... EVEN though I prepurchased from gamestop.... It had Space wolf and Black Templar skins in the multiplayer selection options as of level 4. And a hell of a lot of others too. OR did Gamestop screw me over somehow and I'm missing sexy skins? edit to add... I may not be a super epic sculpty/mesh builder like are present in Ordo.. but I do have experience in Warhammer-esque design and can aid a build team if the sim ever does go back to Warhammer 40k. BUT from the pics I saw... I doubt my assistance would ever be needed. edit 2 to add... so yes.. I WANT WARHAMMER SIM. and will be willing to work my ass off to help achieve it!

I very very very STRONGLY suggest... that anyone playing... do not start the assault on the spire if you intend to go to bed within the next 4 hours..... The end of the game is not going to let you sleep.... My head still feels like I'm experiencing the last fight.. and I finished it 2 hours ago >.>