The Waffen ⚡⚡

[Ron Bleac]

Strictly nonpolitical discussion and examination ahead. I'll fuck you up if you derail.

"My honor is called loyalty." SS motto.

The Waffen SS was a paramilitary and political organisation in the German 3rd Reich. It dominated both the battlefield and the political scene, rising from a band of obscure brown shirted hooligans to an army of over a million fighting men. The Waffen SS was in every sense an elite and exclusive organisation composed from the finest warriors of Hitler's empire. You had to be a certain height, a certain ethnicity and have a certain mindset to do the job. Every SS-mann went through rigorous, full military training before being committed to a battlefield. From its beginnings, the SS was a unique military organisation in the sense that it dismissed traditional Prussian militarisms and was not related to other German military units in any way, other than their uniforms and equipment. The Waffen SS was also revolutionary in training; officers and men trained together for on the battlefield men fought for eachother. Traditional ideas of weaponry were also dismissed, the SS pushed for modernization of the German military at all costs. As a result, most Western militaries still carry items or terms specifically related to the Waffen SS. During its reign, the SS became the most feared military unit that any Allied soldier faced. They preferred death and were never satisfied with battlefield gains, often throwing themselves into suicidal attacks rather than surrender. In addition to this, the SS gained a reputation for absolute brutality. The SS did not take prisoners, but if you happened to be the (un)lucky guy to get captured by SS soldiers you were probably bludgeoned to death with a variety of blunt instruments. The SS became legendary during the early war period, but probably one of their most famous combat engagements was during the Battle of the Bulge, were an entire SS division broke through American lines supported by whatever they had at hand. SS troops spearheaded the assault into Allied lines and in many sectors, resorted to melee combat and frontal bayonet charges against fortified machine gun positions. While the Ardennes Offensive was ultimately a failure, the SS ended up in the history books as a rigorous, elite combat unit that you couldn't admire but had to respect. Not because of respect or chivalry between armed factions, but because they would do everything in their power to put you and your buddies into an early grave, be it by suicide bomb attacks or feigning death. The SS fought dirty and were proud of it.

Divisional crests of the Waffen SS.

Organisationally, the Waffen SS was in an extremely unusual position. At the beginning of their reign they were Hitler's personal political troops and answered only to him. Towards the end of the war, they had become a vast army of nearly a million men that equalled, if not outpowered the German Wehrmachts military machine. They answered to their own specific chain of command and German military authority did not apply to them; thus, they were out of the reach of international law that applied only to ratified national military groups. The SS was not a national group, even if ratified by the German government at that time. It was a multi-ethnic (believe it or not) and multi-national organisation that was formed from 38 divisions.

• 
  
• 1st SS Panzer Division Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler
  
• 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich
  
• 3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf
  
• 4th SS Polizei Division
  
• 5th SS Panzer Division Wiking (Scandinavian, Belgian, Dutch)
  
• 6th SS Mountain Division Nord (Scandinavian, Swedish, Finnish)
  
• 7th SS Volunteer Mountain Division Prinz Eugen
  
• 8th SS Cavalry Division Florian Geyer
  
• 9th SS Panzer Division Hohenstaufen
  
• 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg
  
• 11th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division Nordland (Scandinavian)
  
• 12th SS Panzer Division Hitlerjugend
  
• 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar
  
• 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (Ukrainean)
  
• 15th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (Latvian)
  
• 16th SS Panzergrenadier Division Reichsführer-SS
  
• 17th SS Panzergrenadier Division Götz von Berlichingen
  
• 18th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division Horst Wessel
  
• 19th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (Latvian)
  
• 20th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (Estonian)
  
• 21st Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Skanderberg (Albanian)
  
• 22nd SS Volunteer Cavalry Division Maria Theresia
  
• 23rd Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Kama (Croatian)
  
• 23rd SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division Nederland (Dutch)
  
• 24th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS
  
• 25th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Hunyadi (Hungarian)
  
• 26th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Hungaria (Hungarian)
  
• 27th SS Volunteer Grenadier Division Langemarck (Flemish)
  
• 28th SS Volunteer Grenadier Division Wallonien
  
• 29th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (Russian)
  
• 29th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (Italian)
  
• 30th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (Russian)
  
• 30th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (Belarussian)
  
• 31st SS Volunteer Grenadier Division
  
• 32nd SS Volunteer Grenadier Division
  
• 33rd Waffen Cavalry Division of the SS (Hungarian
  
• 33rd Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne (French)
  
• 34th SS Volunteer Grenadier Division Landstorm Nederland (Dutch)
  
• 35th SS and Police Grenadier Division
  
• 36th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS
  
• 37th SS Volunteer Cavalry Division Lützow
  
• 38th SS Grenadier Division Nibelungen
  
  

Other nationalities included (listed by brigade:)

• 
  
• The American Free Corps (formed from prisoners of war and foreign volunteers, exact number unknown.)
  
• The Free British Volunteer Corps (Less than 20.)
  
• The Estonian Legion (More than 200, less than 1000.)
  
• Finnish Volunteer Battalion Waffen ⚡⚡ (1,203)
  
• Norwegian Legion (Exact number unknown.)
  
• Danish Free Corps (Formed out of prisoners of war/volunteers.)
  
• The Indian Legion (Large. Exact number unknown.)
  
• The Kaminski Brigade (Small.)
  
• The Latvian Legion (Large.)
  
• SS-Sturmbrigade Dirlewanger (What the fuck is a Dirlewanger?)
  
• The Tatar Legion. (Lots, probably.)
  

The origins of these 38 divisions and several legions lie in 1933, when Josef Dietrich formed the Sonderkommando Berlin (Special Troops Berlin) and drafted 120 men into his service. Within the next two years, the Sonderkommando Berlin had grown 800 men strong and swore allegiance not to the German state, but to Adolf Hitler himself: "Loyalty unto death and obedience to him alone." The Sonderkommando Berlin was renamed "SS Leibstandardte Adolf Hitler," a regiment that would later become extremely infamous for their numerous warcrimes in France, Poland and Russia. At first, the SS was under the observation of the Oberkommando Der Wehrmacht (High Command of the German Military) and depended on them for arms, munitions and training. Over the years, the group expanded and became largely independent and the Oberkommando Der Wehrmacht lost control. In 1934, the SS Leibstandardte Adolf Hitler demonstrated their loyalty and monstrous ability to kill other men. During the Night of the Long Knives the SS-men killed 84 SA-troops (Brownshirts, as they were called) as the rival organisation had more power over local populations. Adolf Hitler thus cemented his control on the fledgling German reich. Initially, they faced many problems: The SS was given the LOWEST recruitment quota and suffered from a lack of volunteers. With untested battle skills, the Wehrmacht still overpowered the SS in every sense of the word.

SS ranks also differed from the main German ranking system as follows:

1. 
   
   
   
2. Reichsführer-SS (No modern equivalent, theatre leader.)
   
3. Oberstgruppenführer (Supreme group leader.)
   
4. Obergruppenführer (Senior group leader.)
   
5. Gruppenführer (Groupcommander, theatre wide.)
   
6. Brigadeführer (Brigade commander.)
   
7. Oberführer (Senior leader.)
   
8. Standartenführer (Regiment leader.)
   
9. Obersturmbannführer (Senior assault unit lead.)
   
10. Sturmbannführer (Assault unit lead.)
    
11. Hauptsturmführer (Chief assault leader.)
    
12. Obersturmführer (Senior assault leader.)
    
13. Untersturmführer (Junior assault leader.)
    
14. Sturmscharführer (Assault squad leader.)
    
15. Hauptscharführer (Chief squad leader.)
    
16. Oberscharführer (Senior squad leader.)
    
17. Scharführer (Squad leader.)
    
18. Unterscharführer (Junior squad leader.)
    
19. Rottenführer (Section leader.)
    
20. Sturmmann (Storm trooper.)
    
21. Obermann (Senior trooper.)
    
22. Oberschütze (Senior rifleman.)
    
23. Schütze (Rifleman.)
    
24. Anwärter (Candidate.)
    
25. Bewerber (Applicant.)
    
    

But then came along this little thing called World War II.

The SS quickly demonstrated their ability in battle, but also quickly demonstrated how reckless they could be out of it. During the invasion of Poland, the Leibstandardte Adolf Hitler had an odd habbit of passing through Polish villages and "accidentally" setting them ablaze and "accidentally" making all the occupants disappear. They also seemed to have "accidentally" lost a lot of ammunition during routine road marches. The Oberkommando Der Wehrmacht insisted that the SS units be disbanded, as their casualty rate was very high and their fanaticism caused problems in battle. Heinrich Himmler, currently the lead of the Waffen SS, disbanded the SS-VT but formed a larger group of sub-divisions to replace them, thus bringing them out of OBK control.

The following year the SS spent preparing for the coming war in the west. Each SS commander knew that they had to adapt to a new form of warfare, a fast moving motorized form of warfare involving large amounts of automatic and easily displaced weaponry. Each regiment was retrained, retrained and drilled rigorously for the upcoming conflict and on the 10th of May, 1940, Leibstandardte Adolf Hitler troops overcame Dutch borderguards and began the assault into the Netherlands. Dutch borderguards, caught nearly off guard were forced to surrender and make way for the oncoming German divisions. After the Dutch surrender, the Leibstandardte Adolf Hitler moved to engage French troops. After a long bit of fighting and this famous thing called "the retreat to Dunkirk," the Leibstandardte had completed its mission. Becoming part of the XIX Panzer Corps under the command of General Heinz Guderian, they took up a position 15 miles south west of Dunkirk along the line of the Aa Canal, with a bridgehead at Saint Venant. That night the OKW ordered the advance to halt, with the British Expeditionary Force trapped. The Leibstandarte paused for the night, but the following day, in defiance of Hitler's orders, continued the advance. Dietrich ordered his III Battalion to cross the canal and take the height beyond, where British artillery observers were putting the regiment at risk. With a daring infantry charge towards British observers, troops of the Leibstandardte threw the observers off of the ridge and halted the artillery fire. Instead of being punished for his act of defiance, Sepp Dietrich, the man who created the SS and who was now in command of the Leibstandardte was awarded the Knights Cross, the highest military award that Germany held.

Waffen SS troops practicing their rifle shooting somewhere in Europe, 1942. They're probably shooting at little babies or small animals, who knows, but they're definitely shooting at something and looking really mean. Note the nifty campaign ribbon on the gentleman in the foreground of the image. He has seen some tough action.

An unidentified SS motorjager (read: motorbike soldier) sleeps in the passenger carriage of a scout bike while waiting for another roadmarch. The man is identifiable as SS due to his camouflage set, no other military organisation in World War II adopted this particular camouflage pattern and it was one of the first, if not the first produced solely for the use of the SS.

Another experimental set of camouflage for the Waffen SS. This one was only produced in small numbers due to its inability to meld into urban and cityscape settings.

I'm really tired so I'll write more tomorrow, but.

I'm sure most of you know the rest: The Waffen SS went on to fight war in Europe and the Soviet Union. During their time, especially in the Soviet Union but elsewhere as well, they committed a number of crimes against humanity. The Waffen SS is solely responsible, or was at one point, for the organisation, construction and maintenance of concentration and death camps. SS troops committed a terrible amount of war crimes and the true number of dead left behind due to their atrocities will never be known. The world never saw another paramilitary political organisation on a large scale, for reasons exactly like this. At the Nürnberg trials, a large amount of SS commanders were found guilty of these crimes and sentenced to long jail terms or death by hanging, supported by strong proof. A lot of these warcrimes took place against "partisans" on the Eastern front. Now, while the Partisans generally weren't nice folk (they'd poke out the eyes of a German soldier and light him on fire, then watch him squirm in agony) towards those of the Prussian persuasion, a lot of these "partisans" were actually civilians that the SS accused of aiding the partisans, often with no proof. In other words, they slaughtered innocent populations. A lot of them, even. Those who committed these acts will do their time in hell for sure.

Before I go, something interesting for you. The SS is actually a historically significant organisation in the sense that their combat tactics and troop control paved the way for a lot of modern military tactics. The term Stürmgewehr, standing for "assault weapon" created the term "assault rifle." The standard infantry squad layout of the SS was 6 rifles, 4 sub machine guns and 2 machine guns, leading to the creation of the modern equivalent of a combat squad in many countries. SS combat doctrine remains one of the finest examples of military action, globally.

Post more SS stuff! Please try to prevent anyone getting offended, this is here for purely apolitical, historical discussion. Anyone here had any family who served in the Waffen SS? Or perhaps Waffen SS militaria?

[Lanny Ansar]

It is also known that much of the United States' Armor tactics / doctrine have been taken solely from the tactics used by the Panzer Divisions of WWII, most notably Erwin Rommel. I may be wrong about the name, but from what I remember seeing from a documentary is that a scout battalion Bradley IFV (I believe it belonged to Eagle Troop) took a number of POW's from the aftermath of the battle, and had a picture of Erwin Rommel taped to the inside of the door in the back. One of the POW's asked the commander of the Bradley: "Why do you have an image of your World War 2 Adversary on the back of your tank?" and the driver reeled back and told him "Hey, you better shut the hell up. If you had read up on any of Rommel's tactics, you wouldn't be sitting in the back of my 'track."

To be honest, there's a TON of things that the US currently applies within the military that have been greatly influenced by the workings of Nazi Germany. I mean shit, just look at our helmets.

[Aryte]

Stigma aside, the Waffen SS were some of the most serious badasses of their time.

[fatalitywolf firehawk]

one thing i know about the SS was that you could join htem at the age of 16 while you had to be 18 to join any other force.

and to say they were all pure evil that was not exactly true since most had grown up during nazi rule and that had some brain washing in there schools and hitler youth then when they got to the ss for training they go brain washed even more.

alot of the lads in the ss were blind loyal to the cause and in the SS and order is an order it was to be done not questioned.

while they did a alot of evil stuff they are some of the best soldiers in history pure badass