13AUG11 - Munitorum Meeting

[Anlysia Gregoire]

Pretty raw dump log, dealwithit.gif.

[15:58] Anlysia Gregoire: Okay so I'll probably have to vanish for a couple minutes to eat dinner in the midst of this, so let's get going. :x

[15:58] Anlysia Gregoire: Keller is always prepared so I'll let him talk firsties.

[15:58] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Actually, I'm not. But I'll try to type as quickly as I can! :D

[15:59] Anlysia Gregoire: See it's fun because either I get timekill, or I get to stress you out. So I always pick on you.

[15:59] Anlysia Gregoire: Go go go.

[16:00] Anlysia Gregoire: (Everyone else who wants to talk, write it down now so you don't look unprepared like Keller.)

[16:00] Acheron Gloom: I updated my NJ thread with this

[16:00] Acheron Gloom: Convex Hull vs 'Prim' Physics Types

I was doing some testing with convex hulls and prim physics types because I was bored, and I found that when I tested 90 cubes set to prim or convex hull they both only got physics time up to around 1.1 ms at most. When I tested 90 tubes set to prim they went up to 13 ms of physics time. When I tested 90 tubes set to convex hull they went up to a physics time similar to the cubes. My suggestion is to use convex hulls on bullets, no matter what.

[14:24:58] Falcon Linden: Yes, convex hull physics will in almost all cases (okay, /actually/ all cases I can think of) be as efficient or, typically, more efficient than prim physics. If the underlying prim shape was already convex, it won't make a difference in performance. Thanks for asking! Falcon

In addition to performance for the sim, convex hulls for simple sets of shapes in a link-set can do as much as cut the prim-equivalence in half. An example is a linkset of boxes.

[16:00] Acheron Gloom: theres my update. I also have a few questions for Falcon that he hasn't gotten to yet, considering he has the weekend off

[16:01] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): I admit I have been busy working on mesh stuff that Mark hasn't seen yet despite bugging me every 5 minutes to see (<3), and been working on updating scripting and shit so they'll be ready to go. Linden Labs hasn't given a definitive timeline for when mesh will be gridwide, but it was pushed out on all the Release Candidate versions (Tigre, Magnum, Blue Steel), and supposedly it'll be completed some time next week, possibly the week after. Regardless, mesh'll be gridwide by September - some 1.0 viewers are trying to port mesh compatability, but otherwise you will be needing to use a 2.0 or 3.0 viewer to actually see and/or upload mesh.

[16:01] Anlysia Gregoire: 3.0? That's news to me.

[16:01] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): That's what LL's viewer version is up to, I think.

[16:01] Acheron Gloom: Yep

[16:01] Acheron Gloom: 3.0.2 is the latest beta viewer

[16:02] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Firestorm and such are based off of... 2.1

[16:02] Acheron Gloom: its been updated past 3.0.2 a little

[16:02] Acheron Gloom: latest firestorm is up to 2.6.9 at their repo, I believe

[16:02] Anlysia Gregoire: Oh so it's not an "actual" 3.0. It's just "2.0 sucks so we're gonna start calling it 3.0 and hope nobody notices it's the same".

[16:02] Acheron Gloom: nah its 3.0, p. much

[16:02] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): There's actually some differences.

[16:02] Acheron Gloom: mesh + what not

[16:02] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Detachable sidebar, woo~

[16:02] Anlysia Gregoire: I hate how the entire chat system works in 2.0+.

[16:02] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): I'll probably finish writing my mesh guide tonight or tomorrow.

[16:02] Acheron Gloom: I just want the phoenix devs to hurry up with their merging

[16:03] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Just to kinda cover some bases / give people guidelines.

[16:03] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Like, dem rifles over there, all three, only cost 60 L$ to upload together. Preassembled and everything.

[16:03] Anlysia Gregoire: They are lovely spheres.

[16:03] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): ...except I Ffffed up the rails so I can't shrink them to anything smaller then Bracket-size.

[16:03] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Get with the times. >;[

[16:03] Acheron Gloom: ye anly

[16:03] Acheron Gloom: get with the times

[16:04] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): But that's p. much it.

[16:04] Anlysia Gregoire: I'm maintaining a baseline of "When we can actually effectively start using mesh, because people will actually see it".

[16:04] Anlysia Gregoire: That and I'm too lazy to download a beta client with no features.

[16:04] Anlysia Gregoire: This and that.

[16:04] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Need to talk to Morh about Adjudicator particle effects.

[16:04] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): I think Firestorm can already see mesh? Not sure.

[16:04] Acheron Gloom: Nope

[16:04] Acheron Gloom: only v3.0 and kirsten's

[16:05] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): They've had a bloody Ffffing month to get that. >;[

[16:05] Acheron Gloom: I kno rite

[16:05] Acheron Gloom: FS is only at 2.6.9 right onw on their repo

[16:05] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Ah well.

[16:05] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Anyways, that's it for me.

[16:05] Anlysia Gregoire: I will pass something on from Disembodied we're not allowed to tell Ethan about.

[16:06] Anlysia Gregoire: Disembodied Hand: (Saved Fri Aug 12 22:00:15 2011) If im not, Im 99% done with a new fleet ship, frigate class unnamed, 3 crew 4 passenger in drop bay, pilot with torpedo and dead-drop bomb systems and a gunner on each side

[16:06] Acheron Gloom: Oh and if you guys didn't know yet, Bluesteel has the scripting maintenance project.

[16:06] Acheron Gloom: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11

[16:06] Anlysia Gregoire: Mostly not allowed to tell him because he'd get too much enjoyment out of it, and one of my life goals is making Ethan realize Navis sucks and he's a bad person.

[16:07] Xoza Shadow (xoza.tyron): >:|

[16:07] Acheron Gloom: those release notes are slightly incomplete

[16:07] Acheron Gloom: going to edit them now

[16:07] Anlysia Gregoire: And...speaking of needing to go, I need to pop away for a minute. Keller talk about mesh bullets and if that argument ends, Nikki can talk. ;x Be right back.

[16:09] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Technically they'd work as well as regular bullets, so long as the model itself is in the gun. Just set it to convex hull and BAM.

[16:09] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Well, not that simple, but pretty much.

[16:11] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): o

[16:11] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): I don't really have anything

[16:12] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): Other than i'm working on the gunship with tsoom

[16:12] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): THATS ALL FROM NIKKI

[16:12] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): I got something.

[16:12] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): Somethings.

[16:12] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Mark? o:

[16:13] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): I'm still touching up the armoury update charter based on feedback I recieve from personnel and Alpha squads. (http://forums.ordoimperialis.com/index.php?/topic/14365-armoury-upgrade-charter-draft/) I'm still looking for input though, so please post. Especially you, Anly, you lazy Fffftruck. Once I stop recieving input I'll assume that it's "okay" and finalise it with the blessing of Aryte and Munitorum as a whole. Then we should be prepped for Mesh more or less. Of course once I declare if finalised then everyone will jump on it and tear it apart as usual. OH WELL.

[16:14] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): ...Fffftruck?

[16:14] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): Fffftruck.

[16:14] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): I don't even.

[16:14] Xoza Shadow (xoza.tyron): lol

[16:14] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): In other words a promiscuous person of male persuasion.

[16:14] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): But Anly is a tarp.

[16:14] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): Exactly.

[16:14] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): Other than that, I've had pretty much nothing to do animation-wise as everyone is still working on meshes mostly. It would be nice if SOMEONE gave me a nice UV unwrap to work with.

[16:15] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): ANYWAYS. I've been tweaking the mesh Judico and such so that I can swap out parts with it, like some of our Leviathan weapons.

[16:15] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): So that if we do implement an upgrade system, it'd be easy to tell who is using what.

[16:15] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): So the Judico is going to be the assault rifle?

[16:15] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): (like the Judicos over thar have different handguard lengths)

[16:15] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Judico is the CW AR, so, aye.

[16:15] Acheron Gloom: Is the armoury upgrade charter about

[16:15] Acheron Gloom: organization

[16:15] Acheron Gloom: or

[16:15] Acheron Gloom: wat

[16:15] Acheron Gloom: I HAVEN'T LOOKED ATI T YET

[16:15] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Streamlining the armory.

[16:16] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Trimming fat, etc.

[16:16] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): Then Ffffing read it you double nigger.

[16:16] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): With an upgrade system built into the weapons rather then having a billion ARs to unlock.

[16:16] Acheron Gloom: can I suggest things like

[16:16] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): POST IN THREAD.

[16:16] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): So says its done now

[16:16] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): GET ON POINT.

[16:16] Acheron Gloom: bullets being convex hull tubes or boxes instead of regular tubes

[16:16] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): oops I was totally scrolled up to 5mins ago

[16:16] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): XD

[16:17] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): I'd leave that up to the scripter.

[16:17] Acheron Gloom: I think we should have a standard

[16:17] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): Say the armory thread is done now, so everyone jumps on it, then say hahaha not really and use their feedback

[16:17] Anlysia Gregoire: Reading up.

[16:17] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): I might just do that.

[16:17] Acheron Gloom: especially considering my testing earlier where the cubes and convex hull tubes were 1.1 ms, while the regular tubes were 14 ms

[16:17] Acheron Gloom: of physics time

[16:17] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): What Nikki said, too. That's what I said about the CW stats at first to get people to go >8c

[16:17] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Then went from there.

[16:17] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): shh let Anly learn to read english

[16:17] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): a, b, c, d, e...

[16:18] Typhon R DeCrux (typhon.perun) has entered the region.

[16:18] Anlysia Gregoire: Okay caught up.

[16:18] Anlysia Gregoire: I had a delicious cheddar smokie, just had to say.

[16:18] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): Cool story.

[16:18] Anlysia Gregoire: It is.

[16:19] Anlysia Gregoire: BUT MARK I GAVE YOU FEEDBACK ON STEAM, WHY YOU NEED IT WRITTEN DOWN? :< :< ;D

[16:19] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): Because Steam doesn't keep logs.

[16:19] Anlysia Gregoire: Okay I'll go re-read it again and comment. What's the link again, so everyone here can? ;o

[16:19] Anlysia Gregoire: (Bayonet bayonet.)

[16:19] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): I posted it god damn

[16:20] Singularity Phenomena has left the region.

[16:20] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): http://forums.ordoimperialis.com/index.php?/topic/14365-armoury-upgrade-charter-draft/

[16:20] Anlysia Gregoire: Yes but if you post it twice they may see it. Be nice because I'm going to post this log for you.

[16:20] Gen Scientist has entered the region.

[16:20] Anlysia Gregoire: JUST FOR YOU MARK

[16:20] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): Finally, has there actually been any new news on new scripting functionality like llCastRay? There's been a few rumours around that LL are considering implementing function @ trace end or something. Which would have obvious repercussions. Also rawr I am a short overweight dragon. That is all.

[16:21] Acheron Gloom: Dunno. I can ask Falcon when he gets back to me on my other stuff

[16:22] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): wow you are overweight

[16:22] Anlysia Gregoire: He's pleasingly plump.

[16:22] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): ;D

[16:23] Acheron Gloom: updated the https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11

[16:23] Acheron Gloom: bluesteel release notes, by the way.

[16:24] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): So i've no idea if this was mentioned already but

[16:24] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): Is mesh out -everywhere- now?

[16:24] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): Or what

[16:24] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): Just a yes or no works

[16:24] Anlysia Gregoire: No, like 35% of grid or sommat.

[16:24] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): Oh :<

[16:24] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): damnit

[16:24] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): Only private sims that volunteer.

[16:24] Anlysia Gregoire: Yeah it's fusteratin'.

[16:24] Acheron Gloom: Private sims plus RCs

[16:24] Xoza Shadow (xoza.tyron): BTW, any news on Raycasting? :o

[16:24] Acheron Gloom: there were two RCs on mesh last week, I think only oen this week

[16:24] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): I have like 4238402384208 custom jobs for mesh

[16:24] Anlysia Gregoire: I think it got disabled again.

[16:24] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): lol

[16:24] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): The wait is almost over, comrades.

[16:24] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): :>

[16:25] Xoza Shadow (xoza.tyron): \o/

[16:25] Acheron Gloom: Not sure on raycast, Zoxa. I think that'll be after mesh is fully rolled

[16:25] Acheron Gloom: Xoza*

[16:25] Acheron Gloom: I have no idea how I put Zoxa.

[16:25] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Nikki, mentioned it earlier; It's on all volunteered sims and RCs, should be gridwide next week.

[16:25] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): Yeah sorry I was photoshopping for a bit at the start :X

[16:26] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): And it's more around 40%, but I think us and Ark are the only mesh-enabled combat sims right now.

[16:26] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): mmk

[16:26] Nikki Aquitaine (nikki4.aquitaine): Moving on then :D:D:D

[16:26] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): Vanguard/CATI/Remnant/everyone else: What's Mesh?

[16:26] BBW lover for life (silverbackmale.looming) is Online

[16:26] Anlysia Gregoire: It's nice that ARK is actually attempting to be somewhat proactive in the technology area. Though I suppose one could say Vanguard thinks they are, since they rescript everything to be twice as efficient every two weeks.

[16:27] Acheron Gloom: Vanguard has a lot of misinformation in its content creation though

[16:27] Acheron Gloom shrugs

[16:28] Acheron Gloom: and ARK is like

[16:28] Acheron Gloom: greedy.

[16:28] Acheron Gloom: IN MY OPINION

[16:28] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): Well so are we.

[16:28] Acheron Gloom: true

[16:28] Acheron Gloom: I'm not <:3

[16:28] Acheron Gloom: else this thread: http://newjessie.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=179

[16:29] Acheron Gloom: would be in the muni forum

[16:29] Acheron Gloom: not the NJ forum

[16:29] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): Christoph still believes that mesh 'licenses' cost hundreds of dollars, along with a bunch of other bullshit.

[16:29] Acheron Gloom: yeah

[16:29] Anlysia Gregoire: I'm totally down with everyone having good technology. Since it only benefits everyone.

[16:29] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): Maybe he could just take it in the ass for one.

[16:29] Anlysia Gregoire: So who cares.

[16:29] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): So yeah. As for Ark, the whole Genesis thing was... a clusterFfff.

[16:29] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): See how it feels for him.

[16:30] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): But it was more or less precipitated by them not wanting to give the viewer to Vanguard.

[16:30] Acheron Gloom shrugs, "I don't even really want to use the viewer. I just wished it was open source."

[16:30] Acheron Gloom: the onlyt hings I'd like are that uh

[16:30] Acheron Gloom: the raid planner thing

[16:30] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): (speaking of, if you did log into the one released by Vanguard, change your password ASAP, because it was modified before they handed it out.)

[16:30] Acheron Gloom: but thats it.

[16:32] Anlysia Gregoire: Alrighty so...hm. Anything else to bring up, or are we done here?

[16:32] Anlysia Gregoire: *tick tick tick*

[16:32] Keller Vesperia (keller.teichmann): I might actually be able to get the source for Genesis sometime down the road, in case we ever do want to try our hands at a client. But that's it.

[16:33] Scarlet Fläks (scarlet.flaks): Who made Genesis?

[16:33] Ookamiwulf Lemton: ayamo

[16:33] Ookamiwulf Lemton: clix mate

[16:33] Scarlet Fläks (scarlet.flaks): Nozaki?

[16:33] Acheron Gloom: yes

[16:33] Scarlet Fläks (scarlet.flaks): Well that won't end well.

[16:33] Acheron Gloom: I don't like his philosophy about the whole thing.

[16:33] Acheron Gloom: WHen I spoek to him he said he didn't want to OS it

[16:33] Scarlet Fläks (scarlet.flaks): No shit.

[16:33] Acheron Gloom: because

[16:33] Anlysia Gregoire: Well he has to or get B& if he ever gets caught.

[16:33] Anlysia Gregoire: C'est la vie. *shrug*

[16:34] Acheron Gloom: well

[16:34] Acheron Gloom: because he basically does'nt want people to use anything hes made

[16:34] Acheron Gloom: because he made it, and he should get the credit for it blah blah blah

[16:34] Scarlet Fläks (scarlet.flaks): Ayamo's done worse than just making a client closed source

[16:34] Kristian Kit has entered the region.

[16:35] Anlysia Gregoire: (Remember when 3rd party clients were going the way of the dodo, guys, and that was going to solve all our problems? I remember that.)

[16:35] Scarlet Fläks (scarlet.flaks): coughcoughcough RUBY coughcoughcough.

[16:36] Anlysia Gregoire: Well, whatever. We've managed pretty well without a custom client to this point, so, I don't think we'll suffer without one.

[16:36] Acheron Gloom: If I ever get the motivation to finish up some of the dumb things I am doing in RL atm

[16:36] Acheron Gloom: I wanted to work on a viewer

[16:36] Acheron Gloom: but

[16:36] Acheron Gloom: yea.h

[16:37] Acheron Gloom: plus my school year started the previous wednesday

[16:37] Anlysia Gregoire: That'll teach you to go to school.

[16:37] Anlysia Gregoire: Alright I think we're done here, so let's GTFO. Read Marks' thread and comment on it, this I decree.

[16:37] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): STILL WAITING ON THAT POST LITTLE MISSY.

[16:38] Anlysia Gregoire: I'll be busy for a couple minutes posting this log for you for whatever reason, Mark, and then I'll post. ;x

[16:38] Anlysia Gregoire just edits "Australia sucks" into the middle of Marks' post somewhere innocuous.

[16:38] Markpuff (mark.karlfeldt): I wish I was a forum admin

[16:38] Anlysia Gregoire: Alright, e'eryone giddout and see y'all in a couple weeks. ;x