[Quotes of Win]

CONTEXT!!! CONTEXT!!!!!... wait that doesnt make it much better. fekk

[Show and Tell.]

IMO, I like it the way it is now. Just a longer mohawk.. brushed back so it looks.. aerodynamic or some shit.. that'd be cool.. BUT I tend to like odd things. THOUGH my 7 year old likes the bike helmet as it is now. He asked for one.

[Discussion of Chat included in Combat Gestures]

Okay delayed response cause I had to think about it and NOT be asleep when I wrote it...

Aryte...

In the ART course, you say that the throwgrenade action should be announced. And most people do this in vent. BUT even when vent is kept to ART-compliant communications only... I have seen several situations where the purpose of the announcement fails.

It can be easily drown out, or drown out, other communications like enemy movements, orders, downed-calls, etc. IE things that need to be known to the entire group.

And in many ways, the localized nature of grenades means the ENTIRE group does not need to know about them as this can, at the wrong time, potentialy confuse alot of people who are now looking for said grenade. So in that regard, a local chat announcement, for the troops working nearest you, is the smartest choice of ways to announce the grenade. And since aiming your camera up a little bit as you slap your grenade gesture can fling the thing MUCH further than 20 meters, its not like it will warn the enemy, BUT like Krow says, the purpose of a grenade is its terror and herding abilities so announcing it for the enemy to hear. As well, I've noticed on the east road, that most of the regular defenders there with me, when an EI takes cover and I run forward to fling a grenade, as I smack my gesture, and the chat announcement goes out, frequently those with me will smack their gesture at the same time, the announcemnt serving, I guess unintendedly, as a coordinating rally cry on a local scale.

So two simple commands in the gesture.. chat output: /204020 throwgrenade and chat output: FRAG out!

I dont see that as spammy per se, when even allies near you will only see the ONE line, which would be the same one line if I was instead using ONLY /1 throwgrenade

[Discussion of Chat included in Combat Gestures]

All these votes saying that "FRAG out" isnt needed in a grenade throwing gesture... makes me begin to wonder why it is included in the ART doccumentation at all then if so many people think announcing it at all is unnecessary. I WOULD think it was just people who haven't taken the course/thoroughly read the information (there is alot.. I reread it every few days and still find things I missed)... except.. *eyes the Imperator.., who WROTE hte damn course* YEP now I'm confused.

Told in one place to announce it... told in another NOT to. And people wonder why I detpack myself.. lol

[Discussion of Chat included in Combat Gestures]

I personaly use /204020 throwgrenade so ALL they see, is "FRAG out" in local chat. Nothing else.

[Discussion of Chat included in Combat Gestures]

tl;dr version: Rein thinks too much and should likely have his forum posting privs revoked...

REAL version follows...

We all use gestures to control certain aspects of our combat.

Drawing, reloading, throwing a grenade, dropping a barricade, breaching, etc.

ART has been codifying many aspects of communication for us. One cross over between the two topics I've found, and one sticking point of confusion I've had.. is grenades.

My throw grenade gesture, I include the local chat output of "FRAG out".. as we are supposed to announce when throwing a grenade. I have found when we announce it in vent, it is often drown out and not heard, or drowns other necessary communications out. Further, EVERYONE on our team hears it, including those who are nowhere near the location the frag was thrown from, and thus, hearing such is just potential for more confusion. So I combatted this by creating local chat so team members can be aware of it, as they need to be.

Someone poitned out today... such chat, can serve as warning to enemies. And this got me thinking. And I think this is something that can be debated.

When throwing a frag, I can often toss it MUCH further than chat range. And for those who set their timers differently, or make it bouncy, hell, why would chat range need to be worried about? BUT the person I was discussing this with, did indicate it was chat-spammy. And I can agree with that fact. It was recomended that I use a sound file. Although on thinking about this, sound files in a combat gesture.. add lag to everyone in sim who has to download it when I throw a grenade, then lets ANYONE hear it regardless of chat range if they have their gesture volume up high enough, allies who DONT have gesture sounds on wont hear it at all, defeating the purpose of the FRAG out signal as ART teaches us.

Oh and least important of these issues... while I was provided over a dozen sound files for substitution into my gesture so I could remove the text, all of them said GRENADE, not FRAG... which according to ART, is for incomming grenades thrown at us, not for grenades we are throwing out.

So I can leave the words in the gesture... and risk alerting nearby enemies (but if you are using a grenade on enemies in close proximity to you, I feel thats just a MISTAKE) and you risk chat spamming allies if you are throwing grenades repeatedly.

OR I can take the words out of the gesture... but need to then find some other way to communicate the thrown grenade via...

- sound file in the gesutre.. which can cause lag, be classified as sound spam according to our regulations, be heard by anyone with the right volume settings ANYWHERE in sim, and be missed by allies who have the wrong volume settings.

- announcing it over vent, and risk confusing everyone in vent at the time, risk drowning out other more important communications, and risk being drown out by other communications when allies nearby to me need to be alerted.

SO the point I want to put up for discussion is this.

I have as many reasons to include "FRAG out!" in my throw grenade gesture as I have AGAINST it. What are the thoughts of our community here in Ordo on this topic, particularly from Command, and from those who have taken ART classes?

[Why? Seriously?]

*POINTS AT JATH'S AVATAR* HERETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Caption this... if you dare :P]

Okay eater is... Rein. >.>

Bunny in his hands is Ryk.

Kid is random kid number 2724.

Pane one: Rein: om nom nom nom nom

Pane two: Rein: *BELCH* Delicious Ryk mmmmmmm

Pane three: Kid: MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM REIN ATE THE FURRIES AGAIN!!!!

[Box or Can?]

While the metal construction makes one think can.. lets face it, in the modern world where strength is frequently required, boxes are more and more often made out of metal.

The difference I think comes in its ability to be opened and closed at need. A can is opened, and thats it. Its open and cant close again. A box can be opened and close at will.

THUS.. OP, is a box. Not my prefered kind of box... but oh well. >.>

[Does anyone else in Ordo smoke cigarettes?]

Never quit, becuase I never took it up in the first place.

[OrdoCast]

do notice the importance of Ryk REQUIRES he be listed twice.

[This is why I carry now :D]

It is impossible, to have any discussion about the good or evils of firearms in civilian population, without getting into debate of regional need of such. It wasnt intended as a political statement, but local laws, cultural differences, and the inherent nature of crime being different between regions.

And Cyphre, I am sure there have been studies. But like I said.. Toronto, with a population density placing it among north americas top cities, or hell look at any European city, which tend to blow us north americans out of the water. They prove that guns are not required for self defense, unless guns are already legal in a place. one thing I've learned growing up here in Toronto, living amongst urban gangs, many of whom posess illegal guns... is that owning a gun, more often than not makes you a target more than you would have been without it. Prehaps this sounds contrary to "common knowledge" of people living in places where guns are legal... BUT much of the "common knowledge" of people living in those places, sounds contrary to the "common knowledge" of people who live in places were guns are illegal. And this comes down to regional difference, not a universal truth.

[This is why I carry now :D]

one thing I have noticed....

in places where it is legal to own a gun, CC or even open carry is required becuase of situations like the original post.

in places where it is illegal to own guns (excluding hunting rifles and even these you have to jump through hoops for), and is all around alot harder to obtain them, there is nearly no need of them for self defense. Look at Canada. violence is more commonly improvised. vehicular assault... knife fights... good old fashioned pummelings. or even the classic.. brass knuckles. sure there is gun violence here in toronto.. BUT its usualy in the form of "spray and pray as you cover your escape" rather than execution styles. Emphasis on usualy. There are some gun executions here... but always related to organized crime; either street gangs or more orgnaized mobs/biker gangs.

[Count to a million game!]