Properly addressing your superiors.

[Agares Tretiak]

It has come to my recent attention that there is an increasing number of people who have become close and familiar with their superior officers. While this is not expressly a bad thing at all, there has also been an increasing instance of our strongly held and written protocols, something that as a Praetorian, I cannot ignore any longer.

Every new and old member of the Ordo Imperialis, are not those who are our superiors worthy of the respect and consideration they've earned?

Though you may be on a first name basis with your officers or superiors, in public and Ordo related business, it should be Sir, Ma'am, or their proper rank or title. Especially in the case of the Imperator, we execute this reverence and respect. Sir and Imperator are more than acceptable. Calling him Aryte, as much as it is wonderful to be able to relate to the Imperator, is not responsible or acceptable. If he says you can, then by all means. But it is clearly stated in our handbook on how to properly address a superior.

An officer must be close to his troops, but also maintain the clear and uncrossable line of authority and command. Discipline can fall to pieces with the smallest laxity in action, word, or thought. It is their duty as well as the rank and file's to do everything in terms of military decorum, respect, and tradition. So I implore you all to maintain a professional attitude, in regards to our superiors, for we rely on very respect for them to achieve victory and honor against our enemies.

Gloria et Veneratio Imperator Nomen

[Tiridates Mikadze]

I've noticed myself the trend to be informal with officers. In some cases, I can understand that. But in most situations, it is vital to the structure of the organization that rank be shown respect.

Frankly, we are not a democratic organization, which is not to say your concerns are not heard, however the final decisions lie, ultimately, with the Imperator and the officers. The burdens of making those decisions lay on their shoulders and deserve respect, just as the efforts of our soldiers and pilots are truly vital to the continued success of our organization, and also worthy of respect from the officers.

[Rei Kuhr]

....did someone steal Tiri and replace him with a decoy?

[Agares Tretiak]

Eh?

[Aryte]

I appreciate the reminder, guys. I usually don't notice what people call me these days. Ha ha.

[Sosarin Demar]

Respect and acknowledgment for an officer's status is a must, but I would also like to remind that being professional and addressing individuals properly should encompass everyone (I.E., enlisted individuals should be address on a rank and last name basis, as well, should they be addressed by a fellow enlisted, WO, or CO.)

I know that's not within the topic of the post, as this concerns superiors, but I really wanted to post that thought.

[Agares Tretiak]

I agree wholeheartedly, to be honest. And I thank you for bringing that up. Decorum and proper conduct should apply to everyone, without exception.

[Tiridates Mikadze]

Rei Kuhr wrote:

....did someone steal Tiri and replace him with a decoy?

Nope. I am whole heartedly devoted to creating a social and organizational environment that promotes unity and insures the continued greatness of the Ordo.

Is there some reason you doubt that of me?

[Mith Wakowski]

On the other side of things is of course the fact that while maybe some rare enlisted member (or anyone for that matter) uses first names in a purely insurbordinal fashion. Most of us merely forget it or do it conciously withOUT any disrespectful meaning. Being able to trust someone not to mean anything disrespectful about using a first name is what's being on a first name basis is all about.

I do agree the proper use of titles at the proper times (nearly always) is vital to a good organisation. And unless you have a personal understanding with someone that enables you to use their first name. I usually refer to Optio Kit as Kris instead of Kristian since I call him Kris in real life. But never in front of people who woulnd't call him Kristian but rather Optio Kit.

Keeping this in mind most of us should be able to uphold protocol, keep it social AND prevent another slow regression into socialspeak.

For those people not sure if this thread and the reminder to be a true soldier. Just start using titles again, people will follow suit. (Basically just like saluting, if someone salutes you see more doing the same instantly.)

[Agares Tretiak]

Even on Ventrilo, I'd think some semblance of order should be maintained, especially during any sort of combat duty, in order to make things flow more smoothly. Protocols for referring to various ranks within the military have been established throughout history to ensure the quick and easy following of orders on the battlefield, and also the acknowledgment of station within the military. During the combat exercise yesterday, I saw a general disregard for listening to the captain of the blue team that I was part of. At my very suggestion on Ventrilo that we listen to what he had to say, I was essentially told to be quiet by my teammates. I find that a rather disturbing failure.

[Mith Wakowski]

Since you're turning on the great example here I'd like to say that I am sure that since Eazy noticed that Vent was not at all fully occupied with every member of blue team. I.E. being quiet on Vent would have been useless since he wouldn't say anything on there he wouldn't repeat in chat. Following that logic I don't see why saying something on Vent is going to make it harder to read. Overall strategy was pointed out to everyone present before the battle and during the battle the people on Vent were being rather quiet. Once or twice a comment on a team kill or the fact that Sera had to die because it had become someones personal mission. And mostly people pointing out major movements and Eazy directing our general movement.

With all due respect Praetor Tretiak, I don't think it's the best example of our failure to act like a professional military.

[Agares Tretiak]

That's the thing, he made three different orders, and only on the last one did any of them follow it. And yes, the channel was silent. But every moment up to that point, it was jostling and people talking over one another. But even then, the vent protocols weren't being followed, even though it was just a training exercise. While I know all of us can tell the difference, to make the training most effective, is to treat it as though it was a real combat situation.

Furthermore, I've seen it's far easier to attempt to give a verbal command on vent, than in chat, a fact not overlooked by others in the Ordo. I was using that situation as a recent example of a lapse in basic decorum, which I feel it is important for me to point out. I did try to make use of the vent to make some simple observations on enemies and possible opportunities for us to gain the upper hand, but I'll be the first to admit I was relatively silent as well, and I share the same failure.

I do not lay blame on others and think I'm blameless, but rather stated that I saw something in myself that I also saw in others that was approaching disrespect, which is the entire reason of this thread. That I failed to make that clear earlier is also my failure, but doesn't change the underlying statement here, one that some have noticed.

And...I guess it raises a secondary issue of how you refer to some of the ranks these days, since some of the new ones are a mouthful to say, and a handful to type.

[Rei Kuhr]

I personally dont mind informal chatter when there isnt anything going on. I mean, we're all friends here. But when official matters are going on, it's best to remember that recognizing authority and addressing members properly is first and foremost a sign of respect between comrades.

In the real military, addressing someone improperly does carry a penalty. But this is not the real military. But we can emulate it to the best of our ability.

It's also best to remember that people are put in higher positions for a reason. Promotions are not an arbitrary method of showing how long someone has been with the group. It's a sign of both responsibility and the trust to carry out that responsibility.

Keep in mind too, that people in the higher echelons of authority are not immune to punishment for any misdeeds. In fact, regulations are far stricter. So officers especially always have in mind the consequences of their actions. I personally do not give an order unless it is something I would do myself, and something that I stand behind.

[Agares Tretiak]

Yes, informal chatter is necessary to familiarize yourself with everyone in the organization, which I know and acknowledge. What I'm saying is that when someone goes up to Aryte, in uniform, and says, "Wassup my niggas." Or just arbitrarily approach him for an order they could have gotten from an NCO or Officer or heck, checking the COM channel, I see a problem. If they did this in IMs or in some other private matter, or something not directly related to official Ordo business, I see no problem at all.

[Mith Wakowski]

I'll stop getting too deep in these discussions, since I realised I really should let the officers discuss the specifics. But I would like to point out some things.

To one degree or another we've established that this problem is in fact one that needs to be dealt with. How that will be done is up to the Officers of course. But since this thread is in General discussion and intially made to notify us of the problem and start a discussion about it, I'll just make one suggestion.

Everyone who agrees with this, which should be just about everyone to some degree, should raise the bar for everyone else. Addressing everyone the correct matter and a slap on the wrist for everyone who doesn't do it the same way.

We're a way too big of a group to make everyone read this, form their opinion and act on it while we hope they do the right thing.

There are a number of different solutions to be used through SL but I recon this way it would be dealt with faster and more thorough than it would in any other manner.

[Agares Tretiak]

Thank you Mith, I don't think I could have stated that last part better, myself.

I agree entirely. Which is why I brought it to the forefront of discussion, because many, if not all the Officers, Praetorians, and NCOs read the boards, and I hoped it'd spark the desire to make sure this is handed onto everyone who doesn't read the forum.

[Agares Tretiak]

Maks, I do have a problem with it. And calling Aryte "nigga" in public communication seems entirely inappropriate. While I can respect and understand your wanting to demonstrate respect in your own specific manner, I think your efforts would be better put to use to just follow general decorum.

[Kristian]

BUMB!

I was writing a post similair to agares's when i found this one, so just bumbing this one.

[Agares Tretiak]

Kristian Kit, the Necromancer. <3

But yes. This issue is still important.

[Phillip Hultcrantz]

All of this is well and good by all means, but if anyone calls me sir.. I'll smack them. Don't be formal with me please, I hate formalities as they get int he way of business. By all emans, give others their dues but for the love of god please don't call me sir...

[Sekonda Huet]

I appreciate the reminder, guys. I usually don't notice what people call me these days. Ha ha.

Why just last night I hugged you and in turn you broke my neck. :thumbup:

[Kristian]

I see the properly adressing of superiors as an essential part of being a member of this organization. We are not just a bunch of friends although some of us may be friendly with each other. Adressing superiors, subordinates and comrades with their respective rank, detonation or title is a very important factor in my opinion. We are part of what i believe to be the most formidable military organization in second life and being in a military implies that you live by a certain set of protcols and customs that may not match perfectly with your personal beliefs but being in a military is about more than just getting free weaponry and having your own cool kids club. It's about uniformity, discipline and loyalty. It is perfectly fine to be friendly with people but one should always maintain a professional attitude while executing his duties in Ordo.

Tell me, if we go completely loose on uniform standards like we have been for the last few months, stop saluting and stop calling people with their respective titles. Then what is left that makes us a military and divides us from a group of militia

Edited February 2, 2009 by Kristian Kit

[Aelus]

We need to shape up and get back in line.

[Firefox Breed]

I called my rl officers by there first name......

[Lilium Supermarine]

butterscotch