Of Praetorians and May 15th.

[Lilium Supermarine]

In all seriousness, Acheron is right. Being one who tells people not to make us look bad by doing that, it does happen. Often ignored by people due to there not being a rule, imo there should be. It makes us look really silly to rez non kill able stuff on our objectives. We're not BSM.

[Guest Ruin Nefarious]

So as long as it's destroyable, I see no issue. Teach people to look. Perhaps that's the misunderstanding? Destroyable k. Nondestroy bad.

Besides, if it's objectionable voice it to command so it can be changed.

[Maverick Garfield]

I has a plan for the next one but i'll need another AA-12 for my left hand >_>

[Guest Ruin Nefarious]

Arch. >:(

[Arch Graves]

Wow, really? I don't even think I said anything bad, it was just a funny joke from Family Guy. If i'm not allowed to even joke around, I really have no business even being here.

[Guest Ruin Nefarious]

Didn't come off as one. Sorry I took it wrong.

[Maiyu Abeyante]

I've just been kind of reading the thread and not commenting, since I wasn't even in combat, but I would like to mention that theres been numerous times I've heard people being told not to place detpacks/explosives directly on points.

I actually heard once that we weren't supposed to put detpacks on the objective points and just assumed that was a rule and never have. I imagine that's probably where alot of the anger is coming from in regards to the praetorians doing it is you end up with people (like me) hearing not to do it and assuming it's some sort of rule that we don't do it unless it's a destroyable detpack.

Probably needs a further review/official comment from someone with a fancy rank and/or title to clarify whether it is or is not against ze rules. I wasn't apart of the whole Praetorian Training thing as I've been absent with IRL. But I just wanted to comment on my experience of being told not to toss a detpack on the objective point. I can't even remember who told me it lol.

[Krow Ames]

No one's ever had a problem with detpacks on points against our enemies. Just, now that it's being used against us in training, it's suddenly a big no-no.

The confusion came in the previous Praetorian training. The OIC instructed people not to place detpacks on the points and asked for names of people who did it. So, that's probably where that came from.

[Voncloud Akros]

Just to clear something up, i did acctully report what i saw to the OIC at the time i saw it, and was told that Preatorians are allowed to be in the Red zone if they wish to be, which i personally didnt think was right so i took it further and was told it would be looked into, so yes i did acctully go along the protocal route when i saw what was happening.

And to agree with whats been said, quite often during defenses most OICs have been saying NOT to put det packs on the objective points themselves as in, inside the blue ring.

[Kristian]

Praetorians have certain exclusive rights that are listed in the Carta Praetorians. Those are called writ's. One of those writs allows them to cross into the red zone if an immediate threat presents itself there that is probably going to cause a serious problem ( for example: someone that is placing a mortar there or is about to medic tp everyone ). Executing those rights is supposed to be rare because the Praetorian Guard is expected to fill within the normal structure of the defence and group in general as good as possible. Nevertheless, they have the rights to do these things per Imperator approval ( Aryte approved the Carta). In the situation when a praetorian crosses into the red zone he can be asked to motivate his decision to do that afterwards.

[Aryte]

An OIC saying something is entirely different from me saying something in written policy.

[Kishoshima Dragonash]

And to agree with whats been said, quite often during defenses most OICs have been saying NOT to put det packs on the objective points themselves as in, inside the blue ring.

Herein lies the problem then. There is a difference between personal belief and what is allowed/disallowed. I have friends within Ordo who believe that boost packs are cheap, so they don't use them... But they don't forbid their use when they're OIC. This is why it is -extremly- important that everyone that assumes OIC knows our combat rules inside and out (for both Defense and Offense) rather than instituting their own beliefs. If you feel it's cheap to lay explosives on the objective, dont do it, there's nothing wrong with that at all. By all means play to your ethics as long as they are not -broader- than those of Ordo. If you wish to be more restrictive than Ordo allows, then please play that way... but don't try to enforce your own systems because you're the OIC.... People take the OIC at his/her word because of the trust and the knowledge that is supposed to accompany that position. So if an OIC says "dont put explosives on the objectives" it turns into "Explosives are forbidden to be placed on the objectives." Things evolve. Keep in mind, when I say -you- it's a collective you, not singular, so Im not pointing a finger at you Voncloud, I'm speaking in generalities.

What I urge each and everyone member of the Ordo to do, is to find our combat covenant, read it, learn it inside and out. You should also keep in mind that the covenant is what's called a "living document" which means that you read and understand the rules but you apply common sense and interpret the "spirit" of the rule (in some cases) rather than verbatim.

A prime example is the 45 and 90 minute Lonewolf rule. We all know that from Midnight SLT until 0800 hrs SLT, Lonewolves are permitted to attack for 45 minutes, but this rule is not set in stone.. it is completely up to the OIC's discretion. Why? Let's take a look at our night shifts here of late... hours upon hours upon HOURS of sitting around bored out of our skulls... FINALLY at like 0315 hrs a single Lonewolf shows up. Now what occurs MOST of the time is that at 0400 hrs everyone in vent is screaming the 45 minutes are up... but at the same time the OIC can hear the entire group laughing, having fun, and enjoying the attack... this lonewolf has broken the monotony, is abiding by our rules and is having as much fun as WE are. Does this mean the OIC or the SOG MUST contact the lonewolf and tell him/her to fuck off and come back at 0800 hrs? No, it's left completely up to the discretion of the OIC. A vast majority of the rules we have in Ordo are set up in this manner because every member of the Ordo is an adult, and should have the ability to use common sense.

Basically, what Im trying to say is, don't take these training exercises on Titan as a personal ding to your honor, this is not a "We're the Praetorians, we're here to skull fuck you and show all of Ordo that we're vastly superior to you in every way imaginable muwahahahaha.. kow tow to our will and kiss our feet!!!" In reality, it is just the opposite. The -entire- reason the Praetorians chose to assault Titan was because of the simple fact that WE know that Ordo is the SINGLE toughest, most dedicated, hardest working, well trained and cooperative group in ALL of the SLMC (SL Military Community). The Praetorians chose to attack Titan because we -knew- how hard it would be, we -knew- that we had little to no chance of taking all the objectives and creating a "win" scenario... but we (the Intitiates) needed a chance to face off against a group of people that we knew we had no chance of winning against. At the same time, we also knew that by attacking Titan it would give each and every one of you a chance to test yourselves.. to do what we were doing, and find out what our weaknesses were... where we needed to improve, is our communication weak? do we work well in a group? Can we learn to adapt ourselves to overwhelming odds?

I tried to make a post about this yesterday and after an hour of typing out a BEAUTIFUL post... the net gremlins ate it (thanks Nikki.. your roof gremlins have broken out of the Metaverse and have infected the INTERWEBS! They're going to take over the WORLD!!! :P). I understand completely, how frustrating it is to try to communicate in Ventrillo with 40+ people... so let me pull a page out of my personal history and try to relate it in a way we can all benefit from it.

Those of you that know me, know that I spent nearly a decade as a United States Marine, my MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) was a Radio Operator. This means my sole purpose in life was to set up, maintain, and operate radio communication systems that spanned the gap from MUX (Multiplexers) to SLF/ULF/LF/HF/VHF/UHF/SHF, Sat Comms, and even in some cases laying down phone cable for encrypted telephones and switchboards. Most of the time I was set up in what we refer to as an "Ant Farm" or Antenna Farm..which is basically an area that has a shit load of antennas set up to transmit and receive radio waves, and sometimes act like a relay to boost long distance signals. Each of those Radios or "nets" had specific units assigned for specific tasks. There were days when 15 or 20 platoons (sometimes more) were all on the same "Battle Net" because their missions overlapped. Now try to imagine four radio operators assigned to each platoon (which consisted of 4 squads).. that's 80 people all trying to communicate using 3 to 5 second burst transmissions, calling in everything from code named troop positions, to CAS (Close Air Support), Arty strikes (Artillary). During the heat of combat, it literally turns into a din of noise and static.. it's organised chaos.

The ONLY reason it worked, is because we kept all NON essential transmission to zilch. There wasnt any "Capt McKay this is Lt Dragonash Over." "Roger Lt go ahead" "Roger, hey after this is all over do you and your husband Agares want to go grab a beer at the Officer's Club?" Yeah, no... but that's the types of stuff we hear on Ventrillo ALLLLLLLLLL the time. Hey so and so, did you see me Melee that guy like 10 times in the last 30 seconds, he's a fucking tard!! or you hear "FUCK, GOD DAMNIT THAT FUCKING SON OF A BITCH IS CHEATING, HE JUST SHOT ME THROUGH A FUCKING WALL WTF!!!!"

In the mean time, youve got first platoon set up over in the North, they're taking heavy weapons fire and a tank's rolled out trying to squash them, Second Platoon is set up over in the SW and they're catching arty from the HUB, but noone can call for assistance to the OIC because we've got all this extra nonsense going on clogging up the airwaves.

Ive been told by more than one person, that part of the reason things got so heated on Sunday was because there was too much bullshit chatter going on, too much QQing over voice, and not enough Pew Pewing. The simple solution to that, is to set your mic up so that you have to physically push a button to talk. THen you can yell scream and rage all you want, and noone will be interrupted. In the military, the term we used was Communications Discipline. Take that extra second to think about what you're gonna say BEFORE you say it, and that's exactly what the PTT offers. You have to consciously push the button to talk.

Another major issue Ive heard, is that the OIC at the time, lead a shitty defense. I don't know the OIC personally and Ive never served under him in a defense, BUT I have four lil nuggets to add in on this from my own experiences as Defensive OIC. First... refer up to the communications discipline, that'll help a lot. Second... Assigning an SOG. The position of the SOG exists for this VERY reason, it is the JOB of the SOG to help handle the micromanage aspect of the defense. This frees up the OIC to look at the WHOLE picture and try to figure out WTF the baddies are gonna do. Third... IF the OIC is frazzled and having a hard time, IM him/her and ask if they want you to take over... this mostly applies to the Sr NCOs and Officers as they -generally- have more experience and it's part of their job AS an NCO.. It's also looking out for your own and watching one another's backs. If Im overwhelmed, Id expect someone to offer to help and not take it as an insult.

Finally, the OIC/SOG should be assigning specific individuals to go to specific places for a specific job. Call them BY NAME, not "I need three ppl here, a dozen over there, and two medics here." IE Morh, take Kisho, Yoki, Achtai and Xoza, go to the North that's your platoon keep the Forge defended. At this point, We head over there, Morh tells us in IMs or chat or whatever who he wants doing what and he runs his own mini defense with his "platoon." The OIC can do the same for the other positions he needs. IF you happen to see a hole in an area YOU are currently standing in.. dont be afraid to grab a couple ppl and FILL that hole as long as it's still within the area youve been assigned. Just make sure you let the OIC know. It's all about taking initiative, staying in your assigned areas and coordination. If yout ake these four things into account, it makes the life of the OIC SOOOOOOOOOOO much easier, and it makes the defense run a LOT more smoothly.

Ok, final paragraph, I promise. Keep in mind that we're all on the same team, that none of us -anywhere- in Ordo are out to make anyone else look bad... seriously, you have my word on that. Those of you who know me, know I dont have a massive ego. Yes I bark, and I snap, and sometimes I drool like a rabid wolf, but 99% of the time I'm laid back, easy to get along with and want for nothing more than the benefit of the group as a whole. I can say this about each and every member of the Guard as well.. we have -two- main jobs... Protect Aryte by any means necessary, and protect the Ordo/Titan. That's it.. everything we do revolves around THOSE two objectives. So I offer this... Those of you who know me, know me.. those of you that don't, I invite you to get to know me. I invite you guys to try to get to know the rest of the Guard as well.. we're not that bad I promise. Once you guys get to know us, you'll see what we're really like, and you'll see that what Ive been saying through this entire novel is absolutely true. We may come across as cold or harsh at times, but that's the job... not our personalities. We're not "out to get you," we're not "out to make you look bad." We're out to improve our own skills, and to train ourselves to protect that which we love most, and to HOPEFULLY inspire each and every one of you guys to do the same.

[Maverick Garfield]

Just because you put a det on a point doesn't mean your going to save that one. All people really have to do is have a buddy with them to go AN hero and get someone to hit the det pack so the second person can just walk up and claim that point. Not that hard at all to do you just have to think and use your head.

I've been there for both Praetorian trainings and well I'll admite I wasn't happy with either one BUT it wasn't the guard I was having the issue with. People need to stop screaming and yelling on vent. It about got to the point I took my headset off because so many people were talking. Everyone should know that you can't get excited I'll admite I do it ever so often but not as much as some people. I felt that if are communication would have been a bit better we could of held up a little bit more. So in short keep your mouths shut unless you have something important to say and listen to the NOIC or OIC.

Do not put the blame on the Praetorians for doing their job, remeber we're family so start acting like it.

[Wolf Shaman]

[*]Thatguy was indeed dropped from a Thanatos. It was OK'd by Aryte.

Aryte keeps finding ways to make me sad.

But yes, it was training, and normally That is not a legal tactic per Astra, Ordo, or in most sims, including Titan.

Quote from our combat covenant. - 12APR11

➡ FAIR USE / INTENDED USE: It is not acceptable to circumvent expectations in regards to teleporting in vehicles by, for example, flying a fighter jet over to our base and jumping out.

Bombers are ment to be used for bombing, Not troop deployment / dropship ops. (that second seat is where the bombardier sits)

I'll just say this: Dont let me catch you doing this in combat.

[Aryte]

The confusion with that is it was utilized in CS, where it was acceptable. So you can stop being sad. I was not present, so I obviously wasn't sitting there going "yeah bro, drop from a Thanny, it's cool." Simple misunderstanding from prior event in which most of them were present for.

Also, good post, Kisho.

[Trinity Heckroth]

Channel commanders, talk to a channel from another channel, or all channels from another channel

I just want to make a point of saying; these things can be done in ventrillo with a bit of set up. (I know, because I have the combat channels set up like that for myself. I can talk across all combat team sub-channels allowing different squads to utilize different channels for easier coordination between them, and with phantoms in all channels I can hear and coordinate with them all.)

Just sayin'.

[Ayaka Jupiter]

Seriously, you all are still bantering about this?

Sure, the Praetorians are supposed to be the best of us. But, then again, they haven't asked me to join yet, so they aren't the best!

But, get over it. As they say in WoW "Less qq, more pew pew"

Enjoy combat for what it is. And this is in SL, it's not made for FPS at all. Despite what you may think, SL was not made to be tooling around with guns and shooting people while they shoot at you. It was meant to be a virtual world. SL combat and LLCS combat stretch the resources and such of a sim to the max. Especially in heavy combat.

So, shit happens. Get over it.

We're here to have fun, if it stops being fun, what's the point to doing it then?

[Altus Nirvana]

As they say in WoW

No you.

[Ayaka Jupiter]

No you.

I had something witty to say here, but I forgot it.

My point was basically just get over your butthurt and play the game for the game. The moment it becomes a chore or a problem, you should step back and wonder why you're doing it in the first place.

[BlackSergal]

The -entire- reason the Praetorians chose to assault Titan was because of the simple fact that WE know that Ordo is the SINGLE toughest, most dedicated, hardest working, well trained and cooperative group in ALL of the SLMC (SL Military Community). The Praetorians chose to attack Titan because we -knew- how hard it would be, we -knew- that we had little to no chance of taking all the objectives and creating a "win" scenario... but we (the Intitiates) needed a chance to face off against a group of people that we knew we had no chance of winning against. At the same time, we also knew that by attacking Titan it would give each and every one of you a chance to test yourselves.. to do what we were doing, and find out what our weaknesses were... where we needed to improve, is our communication weak? do we work well in a group? Can we learn to adapt ourselves to overwhelming odds?

We may come across as cold or harsh at times, but that's the job... not our personalities. We're not "out to get you," we're not "out to make you look bad." We're out to improve our own skills, and to train ourselves to protect that which we love most, and to HOPEFULLY inspire each and every one of you guys to do the same.

Preach it, Brother Kish. This Sums up every thought perfectly... Outstanding post!

[RazorFox]

We're here to have fun, if it stops being fun, what's the point to doing it then?

[Altus Nirvana]

I had something witty to say here, but I forgot it.

My point was basically just get over your butthurt and play the game for the game. The moment it becomes a chore or a problem, you should step back and wonder why you're doing it in the first place.

qft, its what I say all the time. If your here on a straight up competitive-ladder basis, you need to reevaluate yourself. Yeah I like to win at everything and every chance I get, but I know for every good shot or move I make, theres always someone out there with a better one. Just lets you know where to improve. (and if ook sees that, the nemesis is different, go away)

also, idea time again? Idea time again.
/>http://forums.ordoimperialis.com/index.php?/topic/13169-another-2-cents/

[Mark Karlfeldt]

if ther was no ordo in ordo we wuldnt b havin dis problam! thro out all teh ordo an our problams wil b gone.

[Acheron Gloom]

if ther was no ordo in ordo we wuldnt b havin dis problam! thro out all teh ordo an our problams wil b gone.

i a rgee

[RazorFox]

qft, its what I say all the time. If your here on a straight up competitive-ladder basis, you need to reevaluate yourself.

This this this this this this this.

Competitiveness is what's always driven me in my career, but it's always been competitiveness with enemy militaries, not people or divisions on my own team. Really, we can't beat people we're fighting if we're trying to beat each other.

I wonder at times if our enlisted base isn't a little too sheltered from the rest of the community. With Ordo being a big multifaceted group as it is, it's entirely possible for a member to get caught up in feeling like it's a self-contained game of its own to be beaten, and that's where some of this internal nonsense comes from.