Fair Combat Act: 14NOV10

[Aryte]

In order to be correctly regulated, an action must be policeable. By technicality, it is difficult -- if not impossible to police the use of client based enhancement features. For example: the use of ARC scores, wireframe, et cetera. It is the position of the Ordo Imperialis that members should strive to be as fair and respectable in every combat interaction, as such, we do not condone the use of client based enhancements. Realistically, we are entirely unable to reliably detect use of such features and can reasonably expect wide use among enemy contingents, however we should strive to be as genuinely fair as possible. In short, if you opt to utilize ARC scores or other client features to gain an edge in combat, do not advertise it.

[Acheron Gloom]

Agreed. Theres not much more to say about it.

[Tsume Xiao]

Agreed, though I wish this would have been stated months and months ago. :P

[Desereck Creeggan]

I use ARC only because my eyes fucking suck and I can't tell an avatar from it's background. Other times I'll use VL's Hitbox shower if someone's using an offset (mechs)

Wireframing should be a big no-no and if you decide to use it, don't record your battle and put it on youtube ect.

[Mark Karlfeldt]

From what I see, things like Show Lookat, ARC and wireframing (not to mention targeting HUDs) has become a sort of arms race.

Since there's no real way to tell if someone's using a particular method or not, if it seems like they're, for example, wireframing, a lot of people will begin wireframing in retaliation. (Even if the opponent isn't actually wireframing. So then it just gets confusing).

If anything I think we should be more wary of HUDs which paint a target for you without having to render everything in a confusing jumble of lines.

Hopefully the occurance of users of ARC and stuff will drop once we get a sim which isn't coloured completely neutral and thus fucking difficult to distinguish things from.

[Fox Cheri]

Personally, I am beginning to grow more and more careless if people use wireframing, ARC or targetting HUDs. One thing that amuses me the most, is when people use the FRAG HUD. It lags them out, and makes them the easy target. ALso when they get shot multiple times, then it must be a pain for them to realize that even when they cheat, they get their second brain handed to them.

I don't use wireframing, ARC, ect. Why? It confuses me more than it does good. I prefer to zoom in and take a shot ... Or use a shotgun.

[Scarlet Flaks]

If anything I think we should be more wary of HUDs which paint a target for you without having to render everything in a confusing jumble of lines.

I could not agree more.

FRAG has a HUD they sell apparently that tracks avatars through land/walls. And we used to issue a old HUD (Terra HUD?), that did the same thing. But we don't anymore. It's not fair, and it's the same thing, albeit laggier, it's the same thing.

In my opinion, all of the above are unfair, and should be prohibited, at least from Ordo personnel to use any of the methods mentioned in this thread.

It's cheap, and it's low, it shows no skill, nor honor or respect for your enemies in combat if you fight unfair.

[Mark Karlfeldt]

I could not agree more.

FRAG has a HUD they sell apparently that tracks avatars through land/walls. And we used to issue a old HUD (Terra HUD?), that did the same thing. But we don't anymore. It's not fair, and it's the same thing, albeit laggier, it's the same thing.

In my opinion, all of the above are unfair, and should be prohibited, at least from Ordo personnel to use any of the methods mentioned in this thread.

It's cheap, and it's low, it shows no skill, nor honor or respect for your enemies in combat if you fight unfair.

Honour and respect in the military community? What you smoking.

Honestly, I think some questions need answers before we put our foot down on anything.

It's frusturating as hell to fight against someone who is willing to resort to low and cheap methods to get the upper hand. Does that give us justification to respond in kind? If not, what is an appropriate response? Should it be allowable for such methods to be used by lonewolves (who are the usual offenders) considering they are usually outnumbered? And so on.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Mark Karlfeldt

[Pat Vinciolo]

I own a targeting HUD on my AK 47 for FRAG.

In respect of the combatants and the rules, I never use this HUD, even when I was LoneWolve. Same if some among the enemy uses HUD to cheat, I stoop sink so low not to do so. Was unworthy.

My values and principles of combat may be "old" but I 'm yours

[Zerowinged Vasiliev]

I could not agree more.

FRAG has a HUD they sell apparently that tracks avatars through land/walls. And we used to issue a old HUD (Terra HUD?), that did the same thing. But we don't anymore. It's not fair, and it's the same thing, albeit laggier, it's the same thing.

In my opinion, all of the above are unfair, and should be prohibited, at least from Ordo personnel to use any of the methods mentioned in this thread.

It's cheap, and it's low, it shows no skill, nor honor or respect for your enemies in combat if you fight unfair.

^ This

~ Thank you.

[Acheron Gloom]

Those huds that track through walls are pretty damn laggy, most f the time at least. Not sure of what the FRAG one is, but one I checked was like 1.1 ms.

As for wireframing and the like, I wouldn't suggest using it at all personally. I actually find that I got a lot better when I stopped using show look-at, and I don't have to worry about being fair/unfair in that regard. The mini-map gives me more than enough help.

[Tiridates Mikadze]

Yay :D

[Niiya Narayan]

Those huds that track through walls are pretty damn laggy, most f the time at least. Not sure of what the FRAG one is, but one I checked was like 1.1 ms.

They move prims around your screen faster than a whole bus of furries which is incredibly bad for both sim dilation and script time.

II'd ban all these stupid huds, they don't even work once they rape the sim anyway.

[Desereck Creeggan]

In my opinion, all of the above are unfair, and should be prohibited, at least from Ordo personnel to use any of the methods mentioned in this thread.

Combat in SL never has and never will be fair. We can't ban someone for wireframing because there's no proof. Once I can actually tell the difference between an avatar, the ground, and the floor of our base I'll consider not using ARC. Not to mention ARC loads when avatars do not, so I'm not shooting at a cloud 99.99% of the time.

Also tracking huds are completely worthless. As demonstrated by the old Astra HUD, it would just freeze in lag and you would be stuck with a bunch of circles on your screen that added to the confusion.

[Anlysia Gregoire]

Yeah those tracking HUDs either don't-work or work-really-shitty or kill-the-sim-thus-making-them-not-work.

Not to mention they use sensors which means they can't see anything further than 96m away.

[Acheron Gloom]

Yeah those tracking HUDs either don't-work or work-really-shitty or kill-the-sim-thus-making-them-not-work.

Not to mention they use sensors which means they can't see anything further than 96m away.

I made a radar that integrated with Phoenix/Emerald to do sim-wide tracking. You could do the same concept. The only issue is that lag scales with the amount of people in the sim, so like 60 people is p. laggy.

[Steeltael Lykin]

"client features to gain an edge in combat," The minimap is a client based feature that gives you a advantage. So is the ability to Alt-Cam around the battlefield.

[Aryte]

If minimap and your ability to alt-cam were disable-able, then it'd be worth discussing.

[Tiridates Mikadze]

Minimap is a generalized tool, it can tell you general whereabouts, unless you're very zoomed in.

Alt-cam leaves you vulnerable, for the most part, and it's still limited.

Avatar Rendering Cost and Show Look At display the precise locations of avatars regardless of terrain, location, etc. If there is any limit to the range, it's probably draw-distance.

Using those features severely cripples the concept of fair combat, and they tend to be used as crutches, especially by newer combatants. Using something like either of these in a FPS would be rightfully considered cheating, as you could not realistically expect to ambush, snipe, or surprise an opponent who can see your every movement, and so cripples the intended mechanics of combat.

That, and having tried these, I found combat to become boring and without any real challenge using them.

Nothing beats the thrill of having only a vague sense, or even no sense of where an enemy may be, and fighting tooth and nail for every kill.

[Anlysia Gregoire]

TBH in our current build of "They come from that direction" minimap don't really do shit.

When it comes to the new-build which'll feature CQB, all the minimap does is give you a general sense of pretty much what sound would tell you: "Someone's in that direction" "They're upstairs/downstairs" etc.

Atop that, PERSONALLY, I find in CQB the minimap actually makes fighting more fun. You don't run around like a blind retard looking for one person for an hour while they do the same.

You know you've done it in a big Quake map when there's only like 2 people on a server. You spend five minutes running around looking for the other. The sim's the same size regardless of 1v1 or 10v10 or 30v30, so, if you have a good idea where the other person is...cool. You can fight quicker.