Possible changes in C.A.T.I.

[Diablos Korobase]

After are last Raid against C.A.T.I. I decided to contact their leader Fernando Ryba to discuss his groups over use of four weapons at once aka Quad Wielding and suggest some alternatives that may save his group from going the way alot of others have recently.

My suggestions were as follows:

1. To stop using four weapons at once and to acquire rifle that wasn't to expensive but was decent enough that with training would allow them to become a decent combat force that ourselves and others would enjoy fighting as they would fight us on equal terms instead of their usual tactics.

2. To create a central spawn area like we have that all of their members would set their homepoints to instead of having them set to the same place they happen to be standing at that time.

After explaining My suggestions to him in a manner that was being helpful yet at the same time now sounding condescending or demeaning, he was able to understand and said that he was going to prohibit the use of four weapons aswell as start to look for a rifle that all of his members could purchase.

I suggested to him that he speaks to Sera as her guns are both excellent weapons in combat plus excellent value for Lindens and after mentioning to Sera that i had given him her name, she told Me that he had already been in contact and that she knew him already, which was a major plus to this idea.

I also after I had finished speaking to him mentioned it on vent and had both Hokusai and Ethan saying that they would also be willing to help them with weapons, which was another plus.

Our conversation ended with Me wishing him the best of luck with implementing My suggestions aswell as say that I looked forward to speaking to him in the future to see how everything had gone.

He did before the end of our conversation that he was hoping to get a full sim in acouple of months, which should make for much better combat with his group especially if the suggestions I made are accepted by the members of his group they change their ways for the better.

I will be updating this thread as I hear back from him on the progress.

[Agares Tretiak]

Cool! Hopefully they can organize into a real military sometime.

[Syl Kiranov]

The guns they already have are generally fine if they aren't using four at once... they're just fairlight guns, which we've beaten easily when fighting RR or 10th for example. In fact one of them was using six guns (blaster pistols, arc gauntlets, and vipers attached to the upper arms.) But quad wielding alone isn't even the worst of CATI's problems. Their consistent firing through walls and floors, use of aimassisted planes on ground targets, firing into the spawn, threats to ban people for using the parachutes THEY provide, accusations of spawncamping when they set their homes all over the place, etc. are just part of the "anything goes" double standard they have. I don't expect them to change much (even if the leader is reasonable, he clearly doesn't have tight control on his people) so really the only thing you can do is relax and assume there's going to be some hardcore cheating going on. It's part of the CATI charm.

[RazorFox]

I'd buy it if not for Lyncoln Akina quad-weilding while attacking today ;o

[Syl Kiranov]

I'd buy it if not for Lyncoln Akina quad-weilding while attacking today ;o

Let's not forget the machine gun rocket launcher, the AV flying, and the assault today with a 32m radius explosive weapon. This is completely typical of a Brazilian army. If CATI suddenly starts playing 'fair' I might die of shock, because 4 years of experience in SL indicates that these guys aren't just immature or noobs and about to learn better, this is a normal cultural difference.

[Keystone Gray]

Excellent initiative, Diablos.

Let's keep in mind that they're a starting military; I'd not go as far as to say all Brazilian groups are like this, but rather that all new non-English-speaking groups are. The reason for this is that the language barrier prevents constructive criticism from falling home. Every charter military - AN, and Mercz, for instance - began on the basis of having gear and regulations that were quite lax.

Over time, as both attackers provided input and internal issues arose, more rules were put in place and things became regulatory, as it is impossible to sustain a military for very long when equipment and activity is ragtag. I admire Diablos's outreach to them, as this is one of the first steps required towards helping them shape up.

EDIT: I would also like to extend the very same kudos to the developers stepping forth to help CATI as well; namely Ethan, Sera, and Hokusai. I too would have no problem helping contribute to them once my hand gets back to perfect condition.

Edited January 25, 2009 by Keystone Gray

[Niiya Narayan]

I don't think the quality of their gear is an issue at all, as they're all using purchased weapons from decent stores. It's the quantity which they are using and the occasional use of overpowered weapons to cheat.

Also, as a Brazilian army their cheating doesn't suprise me in the slightest, or their gangster/blingtard attire... what amazes me the most is that they haven't copybotted all their gear, as most the IP theft i've whitnessed in SL has been done by Brazilian residents.

But like Aryte says; we know they're going to cheat and hack and ban us for doing anything that gives us an advantage. We should just be thankful they at least aren't violating the DMCA and accept that any maturity may take a while for them to accomplish when it comes to weapon restrictions.

And if they choose to violate our rules in our sim, then they'll be banned.

[Anlysia Gregoire]

If anything, honestly, it probably makes us better combatants to fight these toolbags, because we get used to being at a massive built-in disadvantage for gear and sheer volumes of firepower we can lay out.

[Hunter Abrams]

Today showed one thing they will never change.

[Kellervo]

Aye. Regardless of whatever Fernando says, I sincerely doubt CATI will ever change. Since Diablos' intervention, if anything they have become worse. Last night's rocket smorgasbord, followed by lyncoln's 32m explosive spam and today's rocket raid have been well beyond the usual from them.

[Diablos Korobase]

I can understand that we all seem cynical towards the fact their leader says he's willing to make changes in his group, but if we continue to be negative and not look at the fact that change takes time and the fact that their leader did listen to Me instead of ignoring Me, which should prove that if anything there is a chance.

We should give it some time and make a note of every attack by them and who it was, considering the day Lyncoln attacked, I contacted Fernando and informed him of the attack and not to long after Lyncoln quit his attack and didn't come back, meaning that either he'd had enough or was ordered to by Fernando as a possible sign to show that he was willing to change.

I know that some of You here may be thinking that I've been taken in by his possible willingness to change and that he maybe just telling Me what I want to here, which could be true but at the same time if we aren't going to show we are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and time to make changes, what incentive do they have to change?

Especially if they think that as soon as they say they are going to change and we turn around and say we don't believe them, they are going to say "Well fuck You then, You don't think we can so we are." and they carry on as normal and we end up banning them and bang goes a chance for us to help a group build into an enemy that can meet us head on fair and square, something we are sorely lacking right now and may be seen as an example to those other groups who use similar tactics making them change also.

As for what Keller said about My intervention making it worse, atleast I had the initiative to try, which at the end of the day speaks for itself.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Diablos Korobase

[Kellervo]

I'm simply pointing out that it seems as if the increase in 'cheap' tactics is likely their way of sticking it to us. They aren't nearly as rigid or organized as Ordo, and I imagine the majority of them do not agree with what Fernando may think. After all, they're normally not -too- bad when Fernando is around, such as in previous raids, but their shenanigans in the most recent raids, without his presence, have been downright confounding. I did not mean what I said as a slight.

I'm saying that CATI's grunts - and even their generals like Lyncoln - have the 'we can do whatever the hell we want so long as Fernando isn't on' mindset. I don't see that changing, unfortunately.

[Lestat Umarov]

Let's not forget the machine gun rocket launcher, the AV flying, and the assault today with a 32m radius explosive weapon. This is completely typical of a Brazilian army. If CATI suddenly starts playing 'fair' I might die of shock, because 4 years of experience in SL indicates that these guys aren't just immature or noobs and about to learn better, this is a normal cultural difference.

So you're saying it's a cultural difference for brazillians to act like underage n00bs, wear bling, and not follow set rules? I just don't understand how adults, even from another country can act so retarded, even if there's a language barrier.

[Krow Ames]

So you're saying it's a cultural difference for brazillians to act like underage n00bs, wear bling, and not follow set rules? I just don't understand how adults, even from another country can act so retarded, even if there's a language barrier.

Trust me... Adults all over the world are generally different, depending on what country they're from. Brazilians tend to, well, not respect anything. As Americans/English folks, and some people from other civilized countries with deep histories, we're raised with morals and values passed down in our families. My family, for instance, has a lot of military values; many families do. We've all had at least one family member drafted that brought the military home. We're raised on self-worth and religious morals (Yes, religious morals, like thou shalt not steal or kill), and a lot of the young adults in countries like Brazil and Chile and Argentina and shit just don't have the environments we were all raised in.

[Sera Otoro]

something i need to input here... first off... they quad-wielded the fairlight guns... some of them with black ops... ever since we prohibited quad wielding... theyve started to buy black ops guns with explosives... which have 32m explovies in them...

to me this is nothing to do with them being brazilian... they are clearly trying to use whatever they can to keep themselves above everyone else until we point to them that its a violation of our rules... they will not respect any of the rules that are laid down for fair combat... that wont ever change with CATI...

as for Keller bringing up Fernando... he has been asking me to make some standard issue CATI guns... to which i refused since the stress that is in custom work... not to mention my loyalty to ordo when it comes to building weapons for a military...

[Diablos Korobase]

I think we should see where things have progressed to in a months time and if Fernando has been able to change his groups way of thinking.

If not then they are obviously unable to change and we can go back to thinking and talking about them the way we currently do.

[Agares Tretiak]

...given that I am hispanic by birth, and was raised for a while in South America...

Brazil is widely known for a carefree attitude as far as things like dancing, singing, and nearly a month of freaking carnivals and such. Also there is the education issue to consider. Most of us have had a fair bit of time invested in researching militaries, weapons, or history in general, and that gives us a vastly different idea of what is acceptable.

We have fun with a structured environment.

They have fun without one.

I would not be so arrogant as to presume they are immature or childish. They merely have a very different view of how to have fun with guns, on the internet. Also, they may not have the greatest english skills AND some of our culturally shared concepts may not translate easily over to their own understanding.