The Assault Pack Needs Your Help!

[Mickel Reed]

But when most people turn particles and such off?

How would this be effective? >.>

Doesn't have to be a particle. Could be a big blinking arrow pointing down, or anything else we concieve it to be. How about a big beam of volumetric light coming down from an unseen source up in the sky?

[Agares Tretiak]

Yes. A marker. Of some sort. Preferably one that can be deployed with different colors.

[Xoza]

For some reason last night I thought of a 45deg Tribes1 mod launch pad that would launch the user forward, but well below the jetpack restriction, then they could use a glider, or squirrel suit? To gain more ground. Could be usable only so many times or destroyable.

(More random ideas to come)

[Lanny Ansar]

I would suggest for the markers, instead of the Smoke, to use a type of IR beacon that can be placed or attached. That way, the Astra / Aircraft pilots can go up in the air (With maybe a set HUD, to see the beacons) and be able to see between friends, foes, and objective targets. I used to recall having a HUD setup for infantry that had an IR feature, where it would turn the environment into that fuzzy gray, and Avatars / Avatar based vehicles would glow, while buidings and such didn't.

[Mickel Reed]

Having a HUD with colored markers that could even have text would be extremely useful... and I imagine a bit complicated to script. Not sure. I haven't evolved far past the "hello world" stage.

[Zerowinged Vasiliev]

But when most people turn particles and such off?

How would this be effective? >.>

This is the difference between:

"The bunker on the middle island that is surrounded by trees and grass but is isolated with a draw bridge... Has the objective in it."

or

"Objective at Red Marker"

>__>;

An alternative to particals is needed. Not to sure what would be efficient but HUDs tend to give out in lag. For example: The old Terra HUD or the Preda HUD (For you ASTRA peeps). The problem is finding a medium that won't piss off the enemies while still being near 100% reliable (As far as that can be stretched).

[Xoza]

Another random idea, not for Assault, or maybe so? Engineers could build bridges, I know we have some places a bridge/light bridge or two could be useful, as well as other places we hit. Destroyable, or dies in time of course.

[Agares Tretiak]

Not to worry, Xoza, we have a bridge in the Engineer pack. :D

[Trinity Heckroth]

I am fully agreed with Agares. Assaults are forceful charges on a position in an attempt to break through. Mines, claymores, booby traps, that would be best in the engineering pack. Although, I do like the idea of a napalm/incindiary grenade. I can see an assault team throw one (or more) into a bunker that houses an enemy TP point to cut off that avenue while they charge.

As far as what to use for the marker... how about a tall, thin, phantom mega prim? something that can be seen and used to indicate things.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Trinity Heckroth

[Kiyaru Kanto]

I am fully agreed with Agares. Assaults are forceful charges on a position in an attempt to break through. Mines, claymores, booby traps, that would be best in the engineering pack. Although, I do like the idea of a napalm/incindiary grenade. I can see an assault team throw one (or more) into a bunker that houses an enemy TP point to cut off that avenue while they charge.

As far as what to use for the marker... how about a tall, thin, phantom mega prim? something that can be seen and used to indicate things.

I'd say rather then our conventional SMOKE indicators, we could deploy small beacons which emit a laser beam trailing into the sky, which would work with trin's suggestion here to make a mega prim

[Trinity Heckroth]

>_> AKA A tall, thin mega prim.

[Ethan Schuman]

Locator and designation functions are all well and good, but those belong in the com pack, if not put on a special Tactica raid HUD.

Sprint and such belongs in the boost pack.

Personally, I think we should use an altered version of Anly's original backpack idea and make it an "ammo pack" that allows the use of heavy weapons, which cannot be used without it (unless you're in Antesig), maybe even limiting total ammo charges per respwan. Pilum, Adjudicator, Subjugator, Flamethrower if we ever get one, MGL if it becomes unlockable, Mortar... stuff like that. That way, we're adding in a balancing feature to give those weapons a downside, and make them more fair (and more likely to be allowed). We could possibly also script in slower movement and take away the ability to jump, but I'd expect to see that more in a powered armor suit.

The Pilum and mortar wouldn't take much effort to correct, and I'm still ironing bugs out of the Subjugator. Adjudicator is getting redone... if we're going to implement such a measure, this would be the perfect opportunity to do so.

[Agares Tretiak]

Much too heavy.

Assault, Ethan. Not support. We want to be sending people with these packs to the front line of the fighting, quickly, and effectively, and give them the ability to make subsequent pushes and maneuvers easier.

Markers are for designating targets, either of opportunity, or as objectives. This makes it easier for support teams or people equipped with coms packs and engineer packs, to establish and utilize their skills most effectively.

Sprinting is different from boosting, it's more sustained, faster than the average run, but slower than the boost. It's meant to cover a distance, not to avoid fire.

I can see a grenade the functions like white phosphorus (infantry incediary grenade) grenades. I was just getting worried we'd be making basically a grenade with an area of affect like an artillery shell or bomb, rather than a hand held weapon.

I'm still all for being able to throw a spread of three grenades (of the same type) quickly and over a longer distance than our regular utility HUD would allow for. This would give the assault pack a heavy punch...and would compliment storming actions, which is a critical part of anything relating to assaulting positions. Consider, for a moment, being able to punch a hole through an enemy defensive formation (say a trench or bunker) quickly, with three grenades. This allows you to bounce lovely little packets of explosive/flaming doom around corners and down corridors in a a way that greatly increases the chances of killing, suppressing, or driving from cover, enemy forces. I.E. Dislodging the enemy from ground they are comfortable holding.

That's what an assault is for.

If you want to make something that makes using heavy weapons easier to use, set up sandbag emplacements or set up some sort of logistics point at bunkers that would do that. Hell, slap that into an IFV or APC like vehicle, or make a truck that allows us to deploy heavier weapons more effectively.

Do not, however, slow down the momentum of a fight by making assault packs support units.

[Ethan Schuman]

Assault, Ethan. Not support. We want to be sending people with these packs to the front line of the fighting, quickly, and effectively, and give them the ability to make subsequent pushes and maneuvers easier.

Kind of like what the jetpack already does? ;p

The purpose of new backpacks is to give people an alternative to the jetpack. We shouldn't have something just for the sake of it being somewhat nifty. Grenades and whatnot are okay, but do you really think people are going to use a couple kind of useful gadgets as opposed to the mobility granted by the jetpack? The jetpack is, hands down, the best piece of equipment we have to facilitate the movement needed to dynamically adapt to an enemy's defenses, which is the key component of an assault. Sure, it's called the "Assault Pack," but a little sprint isn't just inferior to the jetpack, duration sprinting is WELL into the area of movement enhancers, and is most likely just ban bait.

However, making the assault pack a required component of our heavy weapons not only makes them "more fair" (less likely to be whined about), but it gives a CLEAR alternative to the jetpack, forcing people to decide which aspect to sacrifice (which is the whole purpose of the backpack system).

[Trinity Heckroth]

But heavy weapons are, by nature, support weapons, and would belong in a support pack. I don't know how effective a sprint feature would be, but the rest of Agares' idea I can fully understand and support.

[Lanny Ansar]

Underbarrel shotgun. >_>

Here's the thing...when i hear of an "Assault Pack", something besides a pack of gear comes to me in my head. I see Engineer packs, boost packs, etc... as support classes and roles, where Assault would fit in as the frontline equipment option, therefore my options appear to be weapon-based.

I had an idea come to my brain as i was on my way home on Tuesday. What if the assault pack instead, was an Armored Suit, with a built-in HP system (Much like a Tank, but with FAR less HP, and is instead an outfit instead of an attachment.) Not entirely a mech, seeing as those are giant vehicle-based units. I'm speaking of an individual Power suit that one can wear as an outfit, with a slight boost to HP (I'm thinking to script it at either 10-15, or 25 health), along with a decent weapon attachment that wasn't overly spammy, but could still provide supportive and suppressive fire. In exchange, its hitbox would be slightly larger (Well, larger than a normal av's), therefore making it a bit easier to hit. (The larger hitbox could be an alternative measure instead of having to script every piece of the suit with an HP meter). This thought occured to me because a buddy and i were discussing stuff about Planetside earlier that day, and i remembered a Powered suit that you could train in for Multi-role stuff (Anti-vehicle, Anti-Infantry, and Anti-air).

[Agares Tretiak]

Armored vehicles, mechs, and armored "suits" all would fall under support. They might be aggressive, front line close support weapons, but they're still meant to support regular infantry forces.

[Tsukiyomi Yuhara]

In my honest assesment of combat roles, assault units should be self sufficient, able to cover most situations without the need of support, air, or heavy armor. Obviously with the exceptions to in which case you encounter unforseen circumstances such as encountering enemy air units. In which case air support is nice.

Though my BIGGEST complaint about SL combat is you move slow, and I would absolutely LOVE the ability to run faster (for the love of god please?! ;3 candies?) I do personally believe that if it the pack already dodge rolls, why don't you go with the small sprint, very easy to add (I can post the like, 10 lines needed to do it at a small increase) it's able to be macro'ed to a gesture with chat commands. and can easily be set to a 5~10 second timer. I havent had a full chance to review all the other packs o.o but as far as 'assaulting' goes, without stepping on all the other packs toes. I think a sprint would be the best option. It's very low lag, and if the values are kept to a 20~50% increase in speed.. its not enough to be rediculous, but its enough to notice the difference.

Also a sprint would thusly increase prim jumping height (more force at a prim = more force off the prim) also increasing the distance one could jump by roughly the same % of speed increase thusly allowing for access to area's otherwise unaccesable without prim jumping or a jet pack. I think that hands down a sprint + dodge roll would be a good addition ;o.

[Mickel Reed]

It's funny, SL combat always struck me as ridiculously fast, like watching an old black and white slapstick reel where all the goons are running around and bumping into each other with ragtime piano music playing. And you die and you're back in action before you even noticed you got hit.

I'm not saying a boost pack isn't necessary, but don't a lot of sims discourage them? I can't honestly say, I've never been out much apart for New Jessie.

[Ethan Schuman]

Oh for crying out loud... if the name is that big of a deal to you, rename it "Support Pack" and go from there.

Seriously, you all are trying to use (what I assume is) a VERY nice model, and a mutually exclusive alternative to the jetpack to run a little faster? Sure, you can get across the field a tiny bit faster, but making the HUGE assumption that it doesn't get banned (and it all but certainly will), what are you going to do when you actually get to the enemy base? Use the stairs they have so conveniently provided you wherever you happen to get in? Getting to the fortifications is the (usually) easy part of the assault. Some will make the argument that our people need to be able to get across the field faster while being fired on. That's what armor and the upcoming dropship followed by teleports are for. Once you're into the base, sprint is worthless. You need something that you can use to get around quickly, and maneuver to adapt to the fight. You need the jetpack.

If you want the assault pack to still serve some sort of stormtrooper banner on the backs of angry Invictus, then that's fine, but you'll need to come up with something a lot better than "Sprint" to sell it.

[Cyphre Iredell]

No the whole point of this thread is to come up with new ideas in regards to the assault pack. A support pack is a nice idea and all, but that is not the focus of this discussion. There are a lot of upsides and downsides to things, which is why we are in need of new ideas to place in the pack (perhaps of concepts that didn't quite make it before due to equipment).

[Mickel Reed]

The markers we discussed earlier would have a place in an assault pack too. Something to quickly signal "artillery here please" and similar stuff.

[Agares Tretiak]

Infantry tactics constitute the bulk of our training, though we have many excellent specialized training programs, as well. Assault, however, is more than just infantry. It's the leading edge of an attack. It's not just for Invictus, who are essentially, shock troopers, who qualify as assault infantry, but the Praetorian Guard, Insid, and Antesig, when they are not deployed in a support role. I am certain other units within the Ordo will also study Assault infantry tactics.

It would be ludicrous to rely solely on one set of tactics for assaulting and enemy, like infantry being supported by armor, or being able to use a particular drop ship. Even in those cases where they might be used, Infantry are the bread and butter of any victory, and assault specialists will need to be able to move swiftly to keep up the pressure of an attack. This would also be called "momentum". Hence a spring. Yes. We have a lovely boost pack. It's great for dodging bullets, but it's not able to keep a soldier moving at a constant, high speed. likewise, our jetpacks provide great vertical mobility, but do not offer the same ability to cover a distance on the ground. There is also the key problem that moving around indoors is a problem with a jetpack, especially our current version. Vehicles could, but they require a safe staging point, and time to load units in AND most do not fit inside a structure or can get past certain types of obstacles. Thus, a "sprint" feature in the assault pack makes more sense, since it covers a spot in our abilities, that is not eaisly filled otherwise. It provides an extra set of tactics a commander might use or rely on in combat.

There are other features I am promoting for the Assault pack that in conjunction with sprinting, would make it a very useful tool for assaults. The rapid grenade throw gives some extra weigh in clearing structures and defensive positions like walls or trenches. The marker ability would allow us to mark targets, objectives, rallying points, and the like, with ease to make communications and objectives easier for our units. Adding some sort of small area of denial weapon further increases compliments the concept of aggressive infantry assaults.

[Mickel Reed]

I started thinking about some of the fun cyber implants you get in System Shock. A lot of them would be very useful in an assault, but I'm pretty sure most of them would be banned (like the personal shield) or simply impossible to implement (like the HUD upgrade that gives you info about the enemy) but one of the gadgets might just make it. The antigravity skates. It was basically some gadget that made you hover an inch above the ground and with zero friction. You'd manouver with thrusts of energy so you'd basically float around at high speeds, and - the important bit - you could change direction just like that.

I imagine that would be banned so fast we'd see mach diamonds in the design specs though.

[Tsume Xiao]

If you want the assault pack to still serve some sort of stormtrooper banner on the backs of angry Invictus, then that's fine, but you'll need to come up with something a lot better than "Sprint" to sell it.

Ethan this isn't for Invictus.