Profile and Avatar Decency standards

[Lilium Supermarine]

Well, In the past we've seen people targeted for many things based on what others see in their profile. It's not so much a "other militarys will mak fun of us >:(" it's more of, when an applicant comes in and looks around and gets a chance to see some of the people, Be them human or furry, and they see some of these very out there groups like "rhino toe suckers" They TP away. Alot of people in ordo stride to be professional and love what they do, All they are suggesting is you hide the groups so the whole image of ordo isn't "lol yiff yiff :D"

[Dascede]

I don't honestly agree with the inhibition of one's profile components, restrictions on what is posted. However. . .

Do remember that we're brothers (and sisters). We have to have a certain amount of respect for one another, as well as decency to our opponents and allies, a little consideration for other people's feelings. Not everyone in SL finds a voluptuous profile that attractive and not everyone likes what you like. There's nothing wrong with freedom at all, of course, but a little respect never hurt.

I've heard "If you don't like it, don't look at it" thrown across before, but we do check for ranks and merits, and it sometimes just isn't pleasant to come across blatant sexual information while browsing for something completely unrelated.

I just believe that instead of hotly defending liberty or ragefully forcing restrictions, a little moderation could help.

All in all, I don't see policy direly necessary, but a reminder to conduct among others could help.

Then again, some people just don't have consideration. I don't name names. It's nobody in the Ordo. Just general experience through other life experience goes to show that some people just don't possess respect. For those people, I guess it's imperative to just suck it up and ignore it while you're looking for what rank they are. xD

[Keno]

I agree with the Great Destroyer.

[Streak Bender]

I say yes and no.

Yes: People need to tone it down. ESPECIALLY when on Sim.

No one wants to know all of your personal endeavors.

However, on the subject of 'We are not being seen as serious/professional enough.'

While that may be true, I believe this group is very serious/professional. Almost to a point where it gets a little overboard sometimes.

On the topic of profiles. If you find your profile a little 'over the top' tone it down, out of respect for others who find it wrong. While I by no means want 'Profile Regulation' I do think we should all be respectful of other members of this game, and keep the PERSONAL things PERSONAL (IE: Sex clubs, Sex groups, Whatever else one might see as a definite 'Not a Need To Know.'

What I'm saying is really, when on sim, lets maintain a respectful, fun environment, without treading into inappropriate, unnecessary waters. Whether that be within chat, or profiling.

[Desereck Creeggan]

Personaly I could believe in why this would be of this being a big issue, and again, I would half to say "no". Simply for the fact that ones own profile is litteraly their personal corner.

Now if someone in their profile had something VERY explicit/demeaning, someone could ask them to chage it, but they shouldn't expect them to do it, only for the fact of its theirs. Its like asking someone to change from shorts to jeans, they dont half to- but in extreme cases it could be taken into consideration for review.

Example: "lawl I r Ordo we suck and r cowards. *ranting about other militaries*" - This, one could say "You are not representing Ordo in a good manner, please change your profile."

Its like walking into a gay club with a proposition 8 T-shirt, not reccomended.

Another Example: "I'm *...* years old, My preferance is *...*, My relationship status is *...*, My biggest kink/fetish is *...*, I am a proud *...*"

No Shirt, No shoes, no service - Doesnt mean you half to wear the same shirt everyone else is wearing or the same shirt. You could wear a long sleeve shirt and sandles, or a T-shirt and winter boots...get my point?

That is only where I stand and see this, It does not mean I am right, nor does it mean I am wrong. Just putting this out there.

[DamionStJames Webb]

Personally I say No way. It's my life, and I'm not going to hide my groups because I have a social (if deviant) life outside of the Ordo. I am not now nor am I ever ashamed of my activities, So I am not going to hide it.

Prid Pro Quo I don't wear my alternative lifestyle tags in Titan, so it's not like I walk around with "C*ck S*ck*R" above my name either.

[Gulliver Carpool]

Ask yourself: "Is the reputation of the Ordo Imperialis created by its constituent members?" I'd say yes.

Ask yourself: "Should the Ordo Imperialis present themselves as *and* be a professional organization?" I'd say yes.

Heretofore, I've been pleased at and kinda shocked by our professionalism in what's a volunteer organization in a game of makebelieve.

I've not noticed it as a problem. But I'm not much of a profile humper. I'd say playing fast and loose with racial remarks, even in complete jest, the occasional, latent respect for or trivialization of the Nazi's evil, and the use of the verb "rape" as though it were a good thing are more distasteful and deserve attention than where someone says they want to put their reciprocal, prim sexual parts in their profile. But that's me.

I'm fairly confident that if someone's profile was so over the top that enough of us got our feelings hurt, Aryte would step in and have it toned down in a nice quiet-style manner. *If* that person even made it into Ordo to begin with.

[Dagger Exonar]

Now, I agree there should be rules in place about what the Ordo crest can be used for and where it can be placed as a tattoo because things are getting silly.

[Cyphre Iredell]

Sadly, what it would come down to is policing the matter; a cause of far greater drama in the first place.

[Agares Tretiak]

I will have to say I have scrubbed my profile quite clean of anything that would prove potentially embarrassing to the Ordo or the Imperator, though not a requirement. I feel such a policy would benefit the Ordo, but only if its members see the logic and reason behind it. I doubt such measures are any sort of purposeful effort to repress anyone's personal choices, desires, or preferences, but rather an attempt to radiate a sense of professionalism and concern for the way the Ordo may be percieved. However, it is readily apparent there are those who feel that is precisely what such a measure would do, and as such, it may not be ideal to try to create or enforce it at this time.

[Aeriese Descenna]

Heh, I remember when Aryte asked me to replace the nekkid pic of myself on my profile x3

[Sera Otoro]

i feel i should place my opinion here... i agree with what gunau is saying here... but at the same time our profile is for our own personal use and should not really be interfered... myself however have hidden all my non ordo groups (only 5 - 6) but they are not ones that would make people raise eyeridges... i just like to have ordo alone in my profile groups...

...to put this short and sweet... if anything... it should not be required... but recommended... i feel that this way it could help with the professional image of the individuals in the ordo and the ordo as a whole... again i state my opinion in general... nothing else...

[Phillip Hultcrantz]

Honestly, I think it'll hurt more than help.

Would you want to join a group that you heard regulates it's members profiles? Rumors are bad and this is just wood for the Rumor mill.

[Kytec Switchblade]

Phillip Hultcrantz wrote:

Honestly, I think it'll hurt more than help.

Would you want to join a group that you heard regulates it's members profiles? Rumors are bad and this is just wood for the Rumor mill.

Personally I believe it would help, it seems most of the indeviduals that would throw a fit and leave over something this small are members that arent devoted enough as is. Usually the ones saying "its just a game lol" without considering; maby a game is better than what some members of the group have in RL, and by bashing that your ruining someone else's experiance with no gain to yourselves.

[Gunau Sodwind]

Sera Otoro wrote:

i feel i should place my opinion here... i agree with what gunau is saying here... but at the same time our profile is for our own personal use and should not really be interfered... myself however have hidden all my non ordo groups (only 5 - 6) but they are not ones that would make people raise eyeridges... i just like to have ordo alone in my profile groups...

...to put this short and sweet... if anything... it should not be required... but recommended... i feel that this way it could help with the professional image of the individuals in the ordo and the ordo as a whole... again i state my opinion in general... nothing else...

While in a perfect world it'd be great if every one policed and tidied up their profile, there will allways be one or two who simply won't, out of a desire to find partners in what every strange things they're into, or just to simply say "HAY I LIKE WEIRD SHIT LOL". The matter remains, to not have actual standards making it a requirement of the group means there will allways be one bad apple or two. And you all know what they say about bad apples etc.

I still dont' see why it's such a big deal, you can be in the groups all you want, you can do what you want outside your duties in the ordo, hell if i care. If you want to be a baby fur eating hippo with dicks for eyes then.hell you're in america (or at least on the internet) do what you want.

Professionality is the core of the problem, even if we can only name off 1 or 2 or 3 people in the ordo who have problems (they shall remain unnamed of course) we still need to set a presidence, we all know someone who knows someone who will be a problem.

Censorship is not the issue, Kytec wrote

Personally I believe it would help, it seems most of the indeviduals that would throw a fit and leave over something this small are members that arent devoted enough as is. Usually the ones saying "its just a game lol" without considering; maby a game is better than what some members of the group have in RL, and by bashing that your ruining someone else's experiance with no gain to yourselves.

Kytec brings up a good point really...when you joined this group you have your tacit and explicit concent to abide by certian rules. If a little thing such as maintaining a professional image is not something you think you can abide by...well perhaps you need to re-evaluate your "lol loyalty to the imperator" and the like.

[Aryte]

I'll write my two cents after my paper of doom.

[Phillip Hultcrantz]

Moy Loon wrote:

Hmm, Basicly this thread is about censorship, and censorship is bad, I'm against this thread.

Moy said it perfectly.

When you begin to censure people personal space you will only hurt yourselfs and others. If you tried to enforce this you'll jsut end up with a lot of unhappy people. I agree that we don't really want to see pics in profiles with one person getting rammed in the ass by 3 other people but you know what? deal with it, it's thier profile to manage not yours.

Censureing a profile is like telling people the only thing they can put on thier blog/MySpace page is their name, race, and thier fav band, while banning all other information. People will not stand for an internet group to begin regulating their personalities.

Then there is our image to the general public. Take intelligent civilian #1, they see a notecard and hear rumors from others that Ordo has a policy of Profile regulation, they are goign to think about the worst kind of regulation there is and say hell no to even applying.

I already know Aryte isn't enough of a prick to do somthing like this, so I've not got anything to worry about, but to the rest of you that think this is a good idea, you really need to rethink your morals.

[Gunau Sodwind]

Phillip Hultcrantz wrote:

Then there is our image to the general public. Take intelligent civilian #1, they see a notecard and hear rumors from others that Ordo has a policy of Profile regulation, they are goign to think about the worst kind of regulation there is and say hell no to even applying.

The same could be said about offensive sexual shit in profiles.

The thing is, you shouldn't NEED to advertise your sexual kinks and fetishes. in the REAL world people learn these things through developing friendships and relationships.

Also Don't lecture me on morality. this is not about morality it's about professionality...like ive said 6 or 7 times.

[Streak Bender]

Phillip Hultcrantz wrote:

you really need to rethink your morals.

So you think it's morally OK to inform the world of your sexual adventure groups, yiff club hangouts, and other crap like that?

No, we should not TELL people what is OK and not OK to put in there profile.

Yes, you should have the decency and respect to acknowledge those who do not wish to know about your unimportant yiff groups. It's common intelligence.

And also, considering you're in a military, SL or not, you do have a level or respect to uphold.

[Gulliver Carpool]

Moy Loon wrote:

Hmm, Basicly this thread is about censorship, and censorship is bad, I'm against this thread.

So would you prefer to censor this thread?

[Dascede]

As it was said, there is something wrong about a Fascist-type control over someone's account in Second Life. I would have trouble if I was forcefully silenced with my expressions.

Do remember two things, however. One, it isn't and never will actually directly affect you to NOT display groups like that within your profile while on-sim. It's not going to eat you alive that everyone else can't see your interests. Sexuality and unique/perverted/different preferences are completely impertinent to the entirety of our group, and it holds no importance to the actual function of Ordo. I don't see the reason behind the need to display that stuff for all to see, especially here in a completely irrelevant setting.

As I mention below, and mentioned in my last post, remember the courteousy that we were all taught about in Schola, and are reminded with by following orders, saluting, and being overall well-mannered when it's serious...

I think that it is important that ALL of us realize that we need a certain amount of respect for one another. Rather than needing to have your information silenced by force of rule, I think that before that is necessary, if someone were to politely ask you to put away your groups, you would have the consideration and responsibility, as well as tact to simply do as requested.

When you think about it, it's not just a question of your freedom; you must also consider what other people think. If you tell yourself "fuck them, I don't really care what they think", then that is basically completely and utterly disregarding other people's opinions, and it puts the exact same message out as totalitarian censorship does. Screw people's opinions and thoughts.

[Krow Ames]

Censorship: It retards societal growth by protecting people.

Censorship isn't the issue, though. Having "LOL I LIKE HERMS N' SHIT" in your profile is the same as walking around with a prim cock attached to your armor. I think that belonging to questionable groups is fine because you have no control over what they're named, but the shit in your profile should be professional.

That's wut I think. But don't mind me. D:

[Aryte]

There are several points to be made here.

The question of professional status and the demonstration of such is something of a gimme. Professional demeanor is an expected behavior: you are already censored, whether you realize it or not. Avatar decency has always been enforced, and always will be enforced. Displaying sexual content on one's avatar in official pretenses, or whilst wearing any regalia or attire of an official pretense, is what I would consider "clear and present," as it is readily viewable without option.

Tacit consent does apply when enlisting within the Ordo Imperialis, as it is a written and assumed matter that professional, visual decency will be enforced. There is not, however, any prior existing profile regulation on the books.

Individuals who apply do have their profiles picked over: some folks have been denied based upon strange profile mannerisms, in tandem with application grievances. Profile decency can and is used as a stop-sign. For example, if an individual has an exemplary application and a proper vouch-in, but their profile would be generally considered lewd, the probability is they will be provided an opportunity to change the profile issue.

Schola does not typically meddle in:

- Group listings; such as sex groups, etc.

- Listings of one's significant other.

- Gender, sexual preference listings, etc.

Schola will meddle in profiles that:

- Display pornographic images.

- Include material that's beyond simply "sexual and lewd;" such as pedophilia.

- Generally "offensive" content; such as sexual logs, quotes, over overly descriptive preferences.

In general, I do not feel profile listings are "clear and present." You are not forced to view them at a constant. If they are not overbearing, there isn't a grave concern on my part.

The concept of the Ordo being marked as "murry purry" or high content in furry is really . . going to continue, regardless of what is in profiles. Because, frankly, we are really high in content when it comes to furry members. The stereotype of the furry fandom will persist, with our without indications inside of any member's profiles. On that note, curiously, I have taken the time to go over and read every profile of those who have posted within here. Those of you in opposition: you're playing devil's advocate, as none of you have any traits within your profile I consider "too disturbing." There are not many individuals that I've experienced within the Ordo that have profiles that borderline it. But that has everything to do with what your description of "disturbing" is.

What it really boils down to, is, frankly . . both sides are odd on this. Those touting "don't censor me," you already are censored. Those touting "professionalism," there is a great deal of that displayed through demeanor. Profiles are only a portion of the bigger picture. Really, how often do you feel our foes spend the time to read our profiles, rather than go with "they are Ordo, fuck them?"

Keep up the good discussion.

[Cyphre Iredell]

Or in simpler words, one must read the profile in order to learn of indecencies, as opposed to actually wearing a prim phallus for whatever reason, in plain view. Our profile isn't sticking out of our backs or anything, so there is no relation to noticeably lewd attachments.

Either way, a level of professionalism is in the eye of the beholder; reliant on ones' self to regulate what everyone else might see and care. If this was in fact a group mostly composed of people who take part in yiffing groups or anything of that nature, there would be no reason to not advertise your outside relations due to the obvious societal connections with one another. This whole concept of people looking professional and whatnot is a bit of a generalization, where there is no means of going into detail. Your intent to professionalize matters little if the starting post simply asks 'What do you think of profile censorship?'

Yay devil's advocate! :D

[Gunau Sodwind]

As the imperator has spoken, there isn't anything else to discuss. We must all remember that the internet is for porn, nothing else.