The End of Compulsory Promotions

[Aryte]

The idea of promotions being a natural progression based upon simply "spending time" around map is one that . . is partially flawed in its establishment. Although I've commented on it regularly: the necessity to be progressive is huge. The difference between an E-7 and a W-1 is "what have they done?" If you're looking at a comrade and going "how the hell did they get to E-whatever so fast?" Ask yourself, "what have they done?"

Compulsory promotions are promotions you can, in theory, receive just by being present on base and being active. Participation in combat is quasi-compulsory: it is an expected practice that you'll participate.

To be fair: you can probably get to E-3 in the Ordo in about . . eh, three months, by simply "being active and participating."

I can promise you that you will not go beyond E-4 without contributing.

What is contributing? Adding to the group beyond simply "being here."

Yes, participating in combat is /contributing/ in its own right. But it is not participating progressively, or improving the group at large. If you're simply a war hero with desires to be a grizzled, recognized veteran: E-4 and E-5-- maybe, maybe with time and some limited progressive attitude, E-6 and E-7. These are fair, honorable positions and very fitting to "career fighters."

If you wish to elevate, gain responsibility, and become an officer-- if you want to see yourself beyond enlisted ranks, or even in senior enlisted ranks, you must be progressive and actually add to the group's culture, identity, establishment and so forth.

I will be asking myself "What have they done for the Ordo?" when considering promotions beyond E-4. It is important that we fill positions in the officer cadre with those who are not "career fighters," but those who are able to handle the level of expected commitment and obligation to work very, very hard for zero pay.

To add, I will be dropping opportunities for existing officers and warrants to be respectfully reassigned to E-7 under the same pretense. There is no shame in this, not at all. I know each and every one of you wishes to do a lot of good for the group, but not everyone has the time or the means to do so. There is no shame at all in that.

[ribena Homewood]

Probably the best article which I have ever read which includes why individuals are promoted.

Awesome.

[Venes Dagger]

I hate to say this and sound bitter, which I'm not, but is that why builders and scripters always seem to elevate so fast? I'm not angry about it or anything, I know they contribute a lot of time and effort to Ordo with their creations but what if your like me and can't build? Is there anyway to contribute? I assume your going to be putting opportunities out there for it since your, like, awesome like that :)

(also, the forum spellchecker thinks 'ti' is a word...is it ?>.>)

[Aryte]

I hate to say this and sound bitter, which I'm not, but is that why builders and scripters always seem to elevate so fast? I'm not angry about it or anything, I know they contribute a lot of time and effort to Ordo with their creations but what if your like me and can't build? Is there anyway to contribute? I assume your going to be putting opportunities out there for it since your, like, awesome like that :)

(also, the forum spellchecker thinks 'ti' is a word...is it ?>.>)

The reason builders seem to be "promoted so quick" is not because they "make cool shit."

It's because they're probably spending a lot of time making cool shit for free, for the group, when they could be making cool shit elsewhere to make oogles of money.

Development does not equal your direct route to W-1.

Development is a cornerstone and part of a greater picture.

Let's take Niiya for example (sorry Niiya). Niiya is a great builder and scripter. Niiya is also a level headed, fantastic leader. Because of that, she's contributed a huge amount to Astra's culture. Niiya has subsequently become a W-1.

Edit: It is usually looked at in poor light, based upon the most visual thing: the fact people make stuff. It is not realized the connection and correlation between the act of making something for the group, and the benevolence behind it. Someone who's sitting down spending several dozen man hours making a new piece of tech is equally prone to spend several dozen man hours designing a new training program.

Furthermore, development is not just physical. It's written, design, conceptual . . Lestat Umarov redefined Terra: he's an O-2. Sosarin Demar revolutionized Astra as a wee E-something. Now he's an O-3.

[Keystone Gray]

TL;DR VERSION (of first post):

Contribute and you get promoted, do not contribute and you will not.

I build often, I work damned hard at other things though. Developers can contribute in pretty much any way a non-developer can. It's just another avenue, and you shouldn't feel compelled to pick up building or scripting for Ordo if you feel it's the only way to get somewhere.

I'm often asked, "Why have I not been promoted?" Everyone believes that, to contribute, you must be of rank or no one will listen to you. This is untrue. Anyone may contribute. Your ideas mean massive values to the officer corps, mainly because we do not have time to pioneer new initiatives, and they are generally so absorbed with maintaining tradition that they hold very little leeway in making revolutions in training, development, process, etc.

It is the ground troopers and the new people who see things for the very first time who give the greatest contributions, because as little value as they believe their opinions hold, the suggestions mean leaps and bounds to us. Don't hold back, look at how things are going and try to understand ways to fix problems that need fixing. Ask permission to help with them!

Edited March 8, 2009 by Keystone Gray

[Venes Dagger]

"I know they contribute a lot of time and effort to Ordo"

I got that sir, put, yeah, put it into perspective fore me. Thank you :)

Furthermore, development is not just physical. It's written, design, conceptual . . Lestat Umarov redefined Terra: he's an O-2. Sosarin Demar revolutionized Astra as a wee E-something. Now he's an O-3.

That doesn't require 'physical' development skills, that's what I was wondering. Thanks for the insight sir!

[Syl Kiranov]

I know this may come across as biased since I'm a builder, but as the Imperator says, it's not the item or product which gets you promoted, but the time invested to assist the group. The same will apply to other contributions, no doubt.

An interesting fact: you'll notice our officers are mostly not builders, nor would they generally have much time to build. An officer position call for an entirely different set of skills and a large time investment. So for those hoping to be officers someday, I think contributing with execution of solid ideas, administration and leadership skills, and a solid professional attitude would serve just as well (if not better) than build skills.

[Gulliver Carpool]

Written in my neurotic 'this post is meant for Gulliver' voice:

Even now, as a W-2, I still find myself struggling with taking initiative. Not because I lack ideas, or any other reason, but simply because I worry that I might overstep my bounds and/or do a bunch of work that might not get approved or whatnot. And then, it's not that "this idea is my baby!" territorial pissing, it's simply the chance of lost man hours, as I could be applying for a job or reading a book or...

I suppose I'm just expressing some worry on the part of those who would like to take initiative to *do* things, but may not have a clear idea what they are able to. At least the non-builder people. I know I struggled like a mofo with this as an E in Navis in the old days when not a whole heckuva lot got done. I suppose I lacked the brazenness of Sosarin as far as reinventing his branch at such a small rank. (Lestat, I don't know your case, hoss.)

Maybe say something about that, Aryte?

[Samia Perun]

Im not after rank, I just want to see people have fun and the group suceed, if I get recognised for doing my best then thats just gravy. Rank is just a recognition of ones abilities, its not a badge of honour simply for being able to shoot in a straight line or idle on a sim.

This is why I value it more when I get anywhere, I dont expect to get anything, I just enjoy it when I do! I keep volunteering and supporting as best I can regardless of what rewards are percieved, simply because its fun to do so and its great to be able to help others out as well. Be it helping make a new idea, or make a current one become a reality, or as I have done recently offer to train people for Armatura.

If people are going to look at Rank as the be all and end all of what there is to acheieve, or want some sort of power over people simply to say they have it, then your probably not here for the right reasons at all.

If your here to have a good time, to try and make something good become better, and simply enjoy the interaction and challenge to better yourself, then your in the right place.

There is no shame in being a low rank, you can talk to anyone just as well as you can higher up, no ones going to turn you away or look down on you just because you have less stripes or red colours on your insignia. Dont ever let it become 'Us and Them' or let yourself get demoralised over it.

Just be the best you can be.

Just my two pennies.

[Aryte]

Written in my neurotic 'this post is meant for Gulliver' voice:

Even now, as a W-2, I still find myself struggling with taking initiative. Not because I lack ideas, or any other reason, but simply because I worry that I might overstep my bounds and/or do a bunch of work that might not get approved or whatnot. And then, it's not that "this idea is my baby!" territorial pissing, it's simply the chance of lost man hours, as I could be applying for a job or reading a book or...

I suppose I'm just expressing some worry on the part of those who would like to take initiative to *do* things, but may not have a clear idea what they are able to. At least the non-builder people. I know I struggled like a mofo with this as an E in Navis in the old days when not a whole heckuva lot got done. I suppose I lacked the brazenness of Sosarin as far as reinventing his branch at such a small rank. (Lestat, I don't know your case, hoss.)

Maybe say something about that, Aryte?

There is always, always the chance of "I wasted my time." That is life. When someone is trying to build something new for the group, they do so under the understanding there is no guarantee something better won't come along. The same concept goes with brain projects.

I do not expect everyone here to be a Sosarin Demar: frankly, I'd get annoyed if everyone tried to redesign their division. If you want to do something and you're not sure "can I?" Just ask! The worst I can say is no.

[Agares Tretiak]

Remember that many of the special ranks and higher ranks require the ability to handle administrative tasks, be a competent manager, devote enormous time and effort to the Ordo, and generally fulfill various leadership and even some combat abilities.

Not only do many officers have to be a jack of all trades, they need to be able to master many of them, and then effectively communicate them to the group at large. This goes for Praetorian and other special ranks, as well.

[Kytec Switchblade]

Here is your prime example. I can probably build if i put my mind to it, but i don't build, i cant script past changing numbers and seeing what happens untill it does what i want. If it doesn't exist on google i'm usually at a loss. But i'm 2ic.

I inspire people to be great. I sit down with people and reassure them they can sucede. I can lead any group to victory based on faith, persistence, and will alone. I think up way to develop skills through combat and repetative or innovative training designs and dish them out the the guard and other participants throughout the group regularly. I devote my time to not only being onsim and defending against baddies I memorized the handbook and help keep order by relaying that to others in an understandable and common sensical way. I have averted disasters by listening, and brought them upon the enemy by commanding. I have written reviews and given examples and ideas to those who were at a loss.

Moreover, I just put this thread into perspective.

[Silver Meridoc]

I agree with Samia, ranks are one thing, but personally its the enjoyment and commitment of being in the Ordo that is its own reward. Seeing other armed forces on SL and how they handle themselves is minimal compared to how well organized Ordo is.

I may have rank goals, i want to get to E-5 at most in terra then transfer to Navis, maybe join an Alpha squad during that time, but its not my primary concern. Its always neat to gain a higher rank with all the fixings of an officer and all the benefits, but its also because those people have shown their commitment, loyalty and duty in the Ordo, and thus are more then granted that recognition of officer.

Having fun in Ordo, just like Samia said, is the main thing, Second Life isnt meant to hold all your time, you are here to relax after a long day, to live a fantasy you wish to be part in, but constantly straining to be the best here and losing grasp on the world is a mistake ive seen in people. Just coming here after a long day is nice, its fun to unwind and chat with people, do a lil training or partake in a raid, its not something i wish to live by 24/7, but more along the lines of being as small commitment i partake to a few hours a night or so.

I feel what Aryte notioned is rather fair, gaining E-1 to E-3/4 is a rather simple show of duty and commitment, but gaining higher then that should make people strive to preform the best they can, even if you know it may not be enough, by just doing what you can and getting involved is more then a reward. Who knows, someone may just comment on your skills to make you go higher.

Just my lil tidbit here

[Kristian]

If it comforts anyone , Ordo denies 8 out of 10 applicants. Getting accepted in this group is already a notable feat. An achievement many envy you for. Over the last 3 months we denied almost 200 to 300 applications. That is about the same amount of applications as we have members. This shows your superiority. You don't decide to join Ordo, we decide who can join us and we have decided we want you on our team.

Now, i've been playing around with the idea of hosting an academy on this subject but first i have some pieces of paperwork waiting ( Schola outline). An academy how to rank up without having any special skills. I take myself as an example, not to brag or anything but consider the facts that i don't build, script ,animate , that i see Aryte maybe 5 minutes every day because of the time zone difference and that i never spend time on vent ( something i am not encouraging btw) due a broken Mic. In short, i claim to have the most shitty conditions in this group and still i got to 2ic of Astra, officer in Frumentarii and commadant of Schola.

I can't say that there is just one golden rule to get there but there certainly is the possibility for everyone to get to the spot he deserves (unlike some militaries i've been in but that's a different story). I have several keywords for success, at least it worked for me.

1) Loyalty

This one will only get you to E-3 because we actively select potentional ordo's for their possible loyalty, pretty much everyone in this group has it and it won't make you stand out (<--- which you need to do)

2) Dedication, i see this as the next step, evolving from loyalty, dedicating yourself to Ordo to develop the group as a whole and not just your personal status.

3) Contributing, the most important step in my opinion, this is where you step in the spotlight. I left the merczateers without knowing that the ordo had a chance of existence back then, i applied for everything i could possibly apply for , simbuilding ( which proved unfruitfull because keno had to redo it all because i never heard of Lowprim building) , Schola instructor, Astra trainer and other occasional things. If something needed to be done you do it. The person that volunteers for it automatically earns more stripes than the one waiting for it to get asked.

4) Patience, i've seen people ranking faster than i did, i've seen multiple people that once recieved there training from me outranking me ( Sosarin is the probably a good example). First i want to point out that you shouldn't let that get to you. They have their abilities and you do. You are not walking the same road and you shouldn't expect that we work with a pushing forward system which means that you automatically get promoted when a spot opens up. Be patient, stay dedicated and don't get mad when someone gets a position that you aspire to have. Think of Ordo's interest before your own and consider if this person has got his rank for a reason? And if you feel that this person is better than you are and you can't stand it then i only have one sollution for you "Improve". I've IMed aryte on numerous occasions to ask him if he could evaluate me to find out if he had problems with my performance ( Eventually it turned out he did, he wanted me to change my haircut). I want to encourage you to use this ability. Ask your superiors how you can improve, what you can do or how you can contribute.

Eventually we all end up in the spot where we belong and should stride to fullfill that to the best of our abilities. A legates is not necesarrily better than an NCO. Their skills differ. Imagine a legates with great diplomacy skills, gifted with the ability to write great speeches leading his men into battle, something that requires the skills of being straight to the point and being levelheaded.

[Desereck Creeggan]

evaluate me to find out if he had problems with my performance

Wasnt there an evaluation forum here a while back? (when i was like... E-1)

Thats a good idea, to show what you can get better at. >_>

my two cents we should do it again.

[Tiridates Mikadze]

To offer one's loyalty, to serve, and to see the wicked crushed under the heels of greatness.

Is there no sweeter thing in life?

But in all honesty, I know it looks like a lot of our builders jump rungs on the ladder like crazy, but there's far more to it than that, as Aryte pointed out.

That said, I do look dashing in my lovely black uniform and cape.

[Diablos Korobase]

The problem with asking Yourself what have You done or You Sir asking Yourself what have they done is that there are so many great people in the Ordo who can do thing that others can't, and even when people learn how to do those things they are still beginners in a group full of experts.

For example learning to script or build, we already have alot of great builders and scriptures so people see that and think why bother and then get down hearted because they fell they will never advance in rank.

I personally feel promotions shouldn't be mainly based on what people have done, they should be also based on the persons character and command ability, as just cause You can build and script doesn't mean You can command people in battle or gain a persons respect.

Granted the people that can build and script should be rewarded for their work but it shouldn't be the be all and end all of advancement.

What we are in need of is an actual school the members can attend which teaches them the fundamental aspects of command and gaining respect of those below You.

Infact we should have 3 different schools which I will give a brief outline of what they may teach.

NCO School:

1. The basics of command such as how to give orders in the correct manner so that it doesn't sound like Your talking down to a person.

2. Battlefield command which will teach the basics of how to command those under You in battle conditions which will be useful in both raids aswell as when Your the highest rank on sim during an attack.

Each should come with a practical exam where each member is given the opportunity to put into practice what they have learned in the classroom

3. Basic management techniques which will come in handy for those chosen to command an an Octet.

4. A final exam covering everything that has been taught.

Upon completion of the NCO School Your name will be added to a list of candidates eligible for promotion to E-4.

Promotion should be based on the usual things such as activity, attitude and anything else they may have done.

It would also be useful for those who are of the rank of E-4 to take a refresher class to show they have taken what they learned and expanded on those techniques and have shown they have grown as a member.

Warrant Officer School:

1. Picking up where the NCO school left off and teaching more about everyday commanding of members aswell as battlefield commands which will come in useful should You be picked to either lead a large raid or be picked to command a specific sector of a major attack.

2. Intermediate management techniques which will be useful for those moving from commanding an Octet to commanding a Century or be named X.O. of one of the three Alpha Squads.

3. As with the NCO School a final exam covering everything that has been taught aswell as like promotion to E-4 promotion should be based on activity, attitude and what else they may have done.

Officer School:

Officer school training should be mainly based around management techniques in order to prepare them for a role which alot of current officers say is more about paperwork than it is about commanding people.

As I said before this is just an outline of what maybe taught based on how I see it, as management side of things can cover alot such as combat reports and notices which would be best suited to a separate post on the forum.

This after all is just an idea.

[Agares Tretiak]

Actually, NCO and Officer schools are in the works.

[RazorFox]

Step 1: Come up with a good idea

Step 2: Pitch the idea to Aryte

Step 3: Put the idea in motion

Step 4: ?????

Step 5: W-1!!!

[Diablos Korobase]

Actually, NCO and Officer schools are in the works.

I would like to help out with that in any way I can, as You can see from My post I already have a fair idea of how it will work aswell as ideas on classes, so contact Me in world if You feel I can help.

Step 1: Come up with a good idea

Step 2: Pitch the idea to Aryte

Step 3: Put the idea in motion

Step 4: ?????

Step 5: W-1!!!

As for what Zrazor said, I wouldn't say it was that easy, but then again if it is then maybe we need to think of a way to make it harder.

Considering the last thing we want is for everyone to be doing just that and to then have a group full of alot of Chiefs and hardly any Indians.

Hence the reason why the three schools I talked about would be a benefit as we would then have people in the NCO, Warrant Officer and Officer positions who had the ability to command and weren't afraid to take command when given the opportunity which I've noticed if sometimes the case.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Diablos Korobase

[SirNick Alonzo]

:> Well...all i can say is...it dont really matter what rank you are and to be fair you can possibly have more fun as a E-1 than a W-1 :)

:thumbsup:

[Krow Ames]

Why are we so hellbent on turning Ordo into a highschool RP? I understand the benefits of letting people attend these kinds of classes, but as officers (some of you posting here), you guys seem to disagree with how officers are chosen. Hand picking is the best way to get the most qualified person; all the school and training you could possibly provide here on the internet can't teach people how to lead, how to command with authority, and how to earn the respect of those they are appointed above. Only observation and careful choice is going to pick the people who have experience or a natural talent for leadership.

Agares' academies are fine, I feel, because they teach people to use equipment and they're voluntary.

[Diablos Korobase]

Maybe so Krow but just handpicking people You think will make good Officers isn't always a good thing as its based on Your opinion meaning if You don't think someone will make a good Officer You won't choose them and ultimately miss someone who has the potential to be not just a good Officer but a great Officer.

Anyway I'm not saying that classes will make a great Officer, but it will show everyone who has the potential to be an Officer thus giving everyone a fair chance to be picked as the facts as in the results from the classes will speak for themselves.

It will also save arguments from people who feel they have what it takes to be an Officer from getting into such arguments cause they will have the chance to prove it by taking the classes which if they find hard will lead them to realize themselves which is ultimately the best thing someone can do.

Not to mention it will eliminate any talk about how this person got promoted to an Officer cause they are good friend with so and so as like I said before results speak for themselves.

Especially if there are any doubt that someone was helping someone pass, said person can retake the course with a different instructor who people may feel won't be as bias towards them.

I would also like to point out the fact that in the real life military soldiers have to take exams in order to be promoted plus Officer Cadet school is nothing but exams.

You may all think I'm taking this too far but think about it this way, which would You rather have, the Ordo with a great reputation for appointing people to command positions based on who they are and not on who they may know or who that are friends with.

Or the Ordo with a bad reputation based on people only seeing that the way to get a command position in the group is to be a kiss ass and to know the right people?

I personally would prefer the great reputation which will no doubt gain us more applicants and thus more members which ultimately is a plus for any group.

[Aryte]

Un-stickied. Still worth reading!

[Trevor Russell]

:o