Sparta Ban Lifted

[Emma Roy]

*raises hand in favor of Seb's idea*

[Desereck Creeggan]

Hilarious.

The 'only two people can lead the raid' rules is bull >_> I say we ... negotiate that... and Bruno is still a child. I say we fight them, shoot them in the faces enough times untill they ban us again, and let them rot away. I dont think anyone would notice, let alone care because they're all banned.

It'll be fun to send in the Numerii's to rape face, and get a few entertaining raids out.

[Kytec Switchblade]

they should get it over with and just say if sparta isn't winning your banned.

[ribena Homewood]

We could use this opportunity for training--we send one Ordo member there, maybe two, to fight the whole spartan army. Of course it'll be hard, but hard is fun.

Army of two anyone?

*attaches body armor and mask*

[Anlysia Gregoire]

*attaches body armor and mask*

*fistbump*

[Agares Tretiak]

...I say send a trio of Praetorians.

Hold their base for a few hours against them. Point out how exacting we were in following orders. Heck. Record the battle if you must. I'd love to see Bruno refute a well paved and documented case of our combat strategy and how strictly to the letter it was, and then try to ban us with any credibility.

I say let him bury himself.

[Tenaki Kupferberg]

...I say send a trio of Praetorians.

Hold their base for a few hours against them. Point out how exacting we were in following orders. Heck. Record the battle if you must. I'd love to see Bruno refute a well paved and documented case of our combat strategy and how strictly to the letter it was, and then try to ban us with any credibility.

I say let him bury himself.

Jaxx and Wasaac aren't members of the guard, so it couldn't be exclusive without violateing that particular rule.

[Agares Tretiak]

>_> They can record it.

[Sera Otoro]

good pointer... they can lead the attack from the spawn... but then... me being one of his ex-spartan commanders, im curious as to why he is ruling me out... perhaps jaxx or wasaac can talk some sense into him...

[Kellervo]

good pointer... they can lead the attack from the spawn... but then... me being one of his ex-spartan commanders, im curious as to why he is ruling me out... perhaps jaxx or wasaac can talk some sense into him...

I can see it something like this:

- Wasaac and Jaxx are NCOs.

- Sera is a Praetorian.

- NCOs are more limited in the scope of their powers and arsenal.

- Praetorians basically have any tool in the Ordo's arsenal at their disposal.

He's probably thinking if he allows officers / Praetorians to lead the raid, he'll find his tanks getting blown up by Venerators or Aggressors, hence why he doesn't want officers or Praetorians leading the raid. Forcing us to rely on NCOs and Numeriis probably gives him the idea that he's free to escalate the arsenal on his end beyond what NCOs have clearance to. I'm willing to bet if we raided them, he'd have two hover tanks on the field at all times.

His rules for unbanning the Mercz are probably more proof to that. The only one who can lead raids is Smulet. Smulet IS an officer, but he doesn't have a tank, or an exo-suit, and as far as I know none of his underlings do either. Sukasa and Kastrenzo do, but those two are both banned (and likely so are most of their underlings) and can not lead Mercz raids.

Bruno probably made these rules with the intended effect of restricting our arsenals, without actually stating such.

[Jayce Iredell]

Couldn't have said it better myself, Bruno, though he may be an agrivatingly pompous douchebag, he's not an idiot apparently. It drives me up a wall to see shit like this, the crab effect strikes again.

[Agares Tretiak]

Bruno doesn't understand how the Praetorians work. If Aryte commands it, he can put us under Wasaac or Jaxx, and Bruno would be annihilated by a 5 man raid team.

[Kellervo]

Bruno doesn't understand how the Praetorians work. If Aryte commands it, he can put us under Wasaac or Jaxx, and Bruno would be annihilated by a 5 man raid team.

Unfortunately, Bruno would think he understands our structure perfectly well, and would see anything more then NCOs and Numerii as 'circumventing' the rules because we can not come up with definitive, flawless proof that anyone above Jaxx or Wasaac aren't actually in command.

Even if we do come up with proof, he will simply refuse to budge on it, much like he did with the Mercz when they performed a lag test for him in front of his own HC (and beat the ever-loving crap out of the Spartan equipment).

He may think to be clever, but he's also incredibly ignorant and likely doesn't give a damn about how we actually operate.

[Agares Tretiak]

There are, none the less, ways to circumvent his arrogant assumptions. He mentioned nothing in his conditions about the PRaetorians, for one, and furthermore the equipment restrictions are not any more extensive than what he has already written. This leaves the door open for us, and I really do think we should use it to our advantage while we can. He'll start crying about unfairness, the moment we deploy even a minor, lightly armed strike force. that's why I suggested we record a raid with Praetorians as the primary forces, so that if he has any objections, we can point out and systematically humilate him and maybe once and for all, make him shut his mouth.

[RazorFox]

I sent a friend of mine who had been on SL for about two days to attack Sparta with freebie guns and he took out their core by himself.

[Jayce Iredell]

I would comment about this, but I find demeanor of people in SL combat to be very childish and backward. If you can't beat'em, ban'em.

[Emma Roy]

sounds accurate...

[Tenaki Kupferberg]

- Do not breach anything that is not a red door.

I don't expect half of you to get this. e.e

Edited June 10, 2009 by Tenaki Kupferberg

[Sera Otoro]

I don't expect half of you to get this. e.e

*breaches*

[RazorFox]

Hahahaha, Bruno's girlfriend dumped him, joined Mercz, and partnered Sukasa Rydell, so he banned Mercz.

[Wasaac Hax]

Well, as a former member of Sparta and a friend of Bruno still, I find a number of things that have been said in this forum to be highly insulting. Offensive displays such as these attack's on a man's character without provocation or reason are not a reaction to his reluctance to initiate combat with the Ordo but the reason for it. I left Sparta after having disagreements with their officers and with Bruno's policies and I still firmly believe Sparta is not the military that it once was however, the childish bitching displayed in this topic puts a number of members in Ordo far below the standards expected of the average Spartan.

Put aside your grudges and grievances, don't read anything into his terms, don't complain. Just enjoy the opportunity to fight against an old and established military group. Of course we will triumph, of course they will complain, yes we will most likely be banned eventually but what separates the Ordo from the Sparta is the manner in which we respond to this. Stay silent, keep your mouth sealed and keep your finger on your trigger. Bitching won't solve anything.

For those still interested in reading, the only reason Bruno requires that Jaxx or I lead the assault is that we are one of the few people in Ordo he trusts enough to vouch for you guys. You do something you shouldn't while attacking Second Chance and I take responsibility for it so play nicely. The other requirements displayed in the first post are merely standard sim rules, much like those for Titan.

[Cyphre Iredell]

The difference Mr. Hax, is that you have not been on the receiving end of this constant turmoil while you were not a part of the Ordo. There are no grievances or grudges, merely history repeating itself. His character has not been attacked, it is who he has revealed himself to be in all various forms of communication. His outlandish beliefs that we or others are prone to 'cheating' in any way shape or form is insult enough to us. Stating that only individuals he trusts are allowed to lead assaults to prevent this so-called potential does nothing more than insult us and the others he has banned and subsequently attempted to make deals with (being Mercz at this time). Whats next? Keep our fingers on the triggers? Well we can only hope he doesn't start limiting the number of bullets we are allowed to fire before banning us. XD

You should read the JWJ article, it is fairly enlightening as to what is fact in this whole scenario. At which point you may realize that assaulting Sparta isn't exactly on the agenda at this time.

And in fact, I am highly insulted that you would even submit that we need to 'play nicely' and that only select individuals are required to vouch for the remainder of our organization.

[Tenaki Kupferberg]

Wasaac, the reason Brunos rules against us rubs us wrong is sumed up by Lurdan Huszars responce to the same rules levied against him, as seen -> here <- about half way down the "The Search For A Reason to Blockade" section. He trusts his officers, he trusts his men, and he trusts if an issue dose arise, it could be resolved diplomaticly through the proper channels. He refused to have some outside influence decide what officers from his cadre of commissioned personel he can choose from. Aryte feels the same way about the men and women under his charge.

We would like to resume combat with Sparta, but some of us don't feel its worth our trouble, or wish to give Bruno the satisfaction. We know he'll claim, once again, that we cheat, then brag about how he had to ban the "evil Ordo Imperialis". It's his game plan, allways has been, ban those that his members don't just roll over. Ivy said herself in the same article linked above, he loved the banlist. She gives a pretty nice description on how he operated, and how much better it was without him. Ivy kept him under control, but now she's gone, and he's free to do as he wishes.

We at Ordo have never loved the "Great Spartan King". His draconian rule set never sat well with our view of what is fair, fun, and sustainable combat. He was never all that agreeable when we tried to work things out, and usually turned it into some childish arguement with no win for anyone. Good example again in the Jessie article, where he tries to spin Lurdans words into saying that he dosen't trust any of his own officers. This is not a man alot of us wish to deal with. I'm sorry you may not be pleased with our tone, he may be your friend, but he'd never put himself in a very high or respectable standing in our eyes. Alot of us wish he and his military would burn themselfs out, so we wouldn't have to deal with him anylonger, even though that would be at the loss of a pretty good punchline.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Tenaki Kupferberg

[RazorFox]

You wanna know what it is to deal with attacks on your leader's character? Try serving in Vanguard for a year. :shiftyeyes:

[Scientific Waffle]

Wasaac, as the one who did the actual negotiation for this outcome, I feel it is perfectly within my right and the rights of anyone who wishes to read what they will into the implications of Bruno's terms as well as how Bruno's own actions reflect upon his character. Bruno's decision to only allow former Spartan members to lead assaults is, in my opinion, an extension of Bruno's long history of mistrust and unfairness. We accept these terms because we rise above what amounts to petty insecurities. The "grudging and grievances" various members have with Sparta are arguably legitimate. However, we do like to make a point of not allowing personal feelings and unsubstantiated fears to dicate our foriegn policy, which is, in my opinion, more than I could say about Bruno's own interactions insofar as diplomacy is concerned.

We have and will continue to tolerate those such as Bruno for the sake of the military community as a whole; what hinders the military community is not grievances with other organizations and individuals but rather the childish way in which many choose to act upon these feelings and opinions. In the public arena, we generally attempt to remain respectful and tactful. However, within the confines of our own forums, the expression of opinion and debate on matters of maturity and fairness is something I find integral to ensuring we see the faults of others (and ourselves) in order to learn to avoid them. There are those who find enjoyment in making light of the matter through comedy, as well as those who voice legitimate opinions as to Bruno's and Sparta's faults. To tell either to silence themselves is to voice a wish to turn a blind eye towards something which causes real harm to the military community.

And in terms of the apparent need for you and Jaxx to "vouch" for the Ordo on assaults, I would like to echo the sentiments of Cyphre. We are one of the most reputable organizations on the grid; Bruno puts no such restriction on any other military. We have levied countless assaults against a broad spectrum of enemies with little incident. However Bruno wishes to rationalize his own tilted policies, the fact remains that Bruno continues to demand respect often without showing it to many in the community in a very public and concrete manner. You are in no position to act condescendingly towards your fellow Ordo members. You speak about how some of our views towards Bruno and Sparta is in your eyes insulting; however, I hope you're not oblivious to the disrespect you have shown towards your fellow comrades in your own comments.

To sum up my overall sentiments, I consider action to be more important than opinion. Speak all you want about our expressed opinions on our forums and in the public discourse, but in a very concrete sense we have shown Bruno complete respect and fair treatment though our actions. I will stop passing judgement when he does the same.